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**Arrian** · July 31, 2002, 15:30

Muxec,

I was not defending Palestinian terrorism. Not at all. I was pointing out the problems with this particular Israeli action.

No, I do not know anyone who died in a terror attack. Luckily, I didn't lose and friends or close family on September 11 (I think I lost a cousin by marriage, but I didn't know him).

Do you remember the palestinian demonstration-celebration after terracts with guns and promises make more terracts???????????? What would be reaction of your country on yhis? There is no doubt, that your country will COMEPLETELY DESTROY them.

Actually, I remember footage of Palestinians celebrating in the streets on September 11th. It was widely publicised. The United States did not COMPLETELY DESTROY them.

And bombing Kabul also was coldcalculated. It was necessary defence. If the army fortified in the city you can not bombard army without bombing city. You played civ3 more than enought if you can not understand that "no pain no gain".

I agree that when one is attempting to bombard an enemy in a city, avoiding civilian casualties is probably impossible. I'm sure we hit a lot of things we didn't mean to hit and killed a lot of people we didn't mean to kill. And that's not something I am particularly proud of.

Overall, I happen to believe Israel has done a pretty good job of trying to avoid killing civilians - but not this time. It seems to me that this man could have been dealt with in another way. Attacks such as these, and Sharon's attitude towards them, will make it difficult for Israel to maintain the moral highground.

-Arrian

**muxec** · July 31, 2002, 15:44

Originally posted by Arrian
Muxec,
No, I do not know anyone who died in a terror attack. Luckily, I didn't lose and friends or close family on September 11 (I think I lost a cousin by marriage, but I didn't know him).

My co-workers were killed at 1 June 2001.

Actually, I remember footage of Palestinians celebrating in the streets on September 11th. It was widely publicised. The United States did not COMPLETELY DESTROY them.

If these demonstrations were serious with guns on the USA border. At the 11Sept day America also was to shocked to perform something.

I'm sure we hit a lot of things we didn't mean to hit and killed a lot of people we didn't mean to kill.

We all are pure angels. I say again "No pain no gain". The Israel tried to avoid civil cassaulties, but it's hard to bomb armored terrorist's house with no cassaulties.

**muxec** · July 31, 2002, 15:53

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Do you know that you used a 1 ton bomb on an a populated area when there were lesser methods of achieving the same result?

DinoDoc! Here is YOUR post. What is your method? Could you take a gun into YOUR hands and show me and my country this genious method.
Aren't your words backed with your ass?

**Eli** · July 31, 2002, 15:57

Israeli gifts to the Hamas will be delievered in the next few others.

**CapTVK** · July 31, 2002, 16:00

Originally posted by Arrian

........previous quote...........

Actually, I remember footage of Palestinians celebrating in the streets on September 11th. It was widely publicised. The United States did not COMPLETELY DESTROY them.

-Arrian

A small addendum:

I might add that they celebrated in many places in Africa too that day. But that wasn't widely published, didn't really come further than a few newspaper articles on page 5, at least in some European newspapers.

Btw,
Those africans didn't celebrate because they saw the US as the great satan, nor malice or something. No, simply because the only thing a lot of Africans know about the USA in general is from all the lavish and extravagant goodies they see in those music gangsta videos (seems music DOES transcend all borders...) but never seemed to share with the rest of the world. For them it was just great to see that the USA could also be put down a notch.

**Arrian** · July 31, 2002, 16:06

Muxec,

First of all, I'm sorry about your co-workers.

Second, what "gain?" You mean the death of this Hamas terrorist? Ok, fine, the IDF vaporized this guy. In the process, they also killed 14 other people. The friends and relatives of those people now have a reason to hate Israel (if they didn't already).

The back and forth killing by Israel and the various Palestinian terror groups accomplishes nothing, so far as I can see, besides further inflaming hatred on both sides. A great leader would find a way out of it. Unfortunately, neither side has great leadership... and neither does the US.

-Arrian

**Arrian** · July 31, 2002, 16:08

A small addendum:

I might add that they celebrated in many places in Africa too that day. But that wasn't widely published, didn't really come further than a few newspaper articles on page 5, at least in some European newspapers.

Btw,
Those africans didn't celebrate because they saw the US as the great satan, nor malice or something. No, simply because the only thing a lot of Africans know about the USA in general is from all the lavish and extravagant goodies they see in those music gangsta videos (seems music DOES transcend all borders...) but never seemed to share with the rest of the world. For them it was just great to see that the USA could also be put down a notch.

Well isn't that lovely. As far as I'm concerned that IS malice: you have things. I don't. I want them. You won't give them to me? Then I hope you die.

**** them.

-Arrian

**muxec** · July 31, 2002, 16:12

The 11 sept celebratons were far away of USA borders and not armed. And Palestinians on demonstration OPENLY say "we are terrorist". And they perform this demonstations in Israel and near Israel's border.

**CapTVK** · July 31, 2002, 16:17

Originally posted by Arrian

Well isn't that lovely. As far as I'm concerned that IS malice: you have things. I don't. I want them. You won't give them to me? Then I hope you die.

**** them.

-Arrian

Seems they already are dying by the scores. So it seems you got your wish. What now?

**Arrian** · July 31, 2002, 16:27

What wish? I don't wish death on anyone.

-Arrian

**CapTVK** · July 31, 2002, 16:34

Sorry if I misunderstood, You seemed to imply it with **** them

**Arrian** · July 31, 2002, 16:39

Ah, I see. In this case, I wasn't using it that way. My basic response to those celebrations in Africa would be (directed at those who did the celebrating) anger, followed by... nothing. In other words, I don't wish anyone harm, but I'm not going to be very sympathetic to people who are happy about 9/11 because it "knocked us down a peg."

-Arrian

**CyberGnu** · July 31, 2002, 16:45

muxec, (btw, what exactly is a muxec?) look earlier in this thread. The whole aggression part is very well explained. I don't have time to do it all again.

Palestine belongs to the palestinians. Declaring a jewish state on any of the territory was an act of aggression. If you have issues with this, you will have to counter the arguments presented on pages 6-12. Just bleating about 'the land belonged to the jews' doesn't cut it, as I've repeatedly shown that claim to be false.

**Arrian** · July 31, 2002, 16:48

Ok, Cyber, so lets get in our time machine, go back to 1948, and prevent the creation of Israel in Mandatory Palestine. Oh, no, wait... we can't do that, can we?

Simply bleating out "the Jews started it!" doesn't solve the problem at hand.

-Arrian

**moomin** · July 31, 2002, 16:48

Gnugubben, hur tusan orkar du hålla på i alla mellanösterntrådarna?

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8 Children Killed in Israeli Attack

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