US Congress lobbies for the return of the marbles of Parthenon to Greece.

[VetLegion]

dont evade the answer

why is it you greeks are such a nationalistic bunch? why dont you like free speach? when will you give rights to minorities?

these are legitimate questions and I am very concerned. disturbed even.

[Bereta_Eder]

sorry vetlegion, I will not respont to your trolling today

If you want to relax just download my two videos in my sig

[VetLegion]

I hit a nerve didnt I?



anyway I should go to sleep. and no I wont download any revolutionaly videos unless they are porn

[Bereta_Eder]

hardly vetlegion.

about the videos, well they are not porn, exactly.

but if you have a 56K connection better go to sleep and see them in the morning

[Shi Huangdi]

"You are just pissed because you got slammed dunk hard and fast by me over each and every confrontation we ever had."


Hahahahahahahahahaha, you are a pathetic troll. I sent you into a complete frenzy last time when I explained to the visiting Turk how you are a right-wing nationalist. Or how about the time I exposed you as a CIA agent? I crush you just like Kemal Ataturk crush you.

"The ottoman empire was crumbling anyway."

You still haven't given us any neutral sources regarding the Greek War of Independence to go against the common historical belief that Greece was saved by allies.

" You wouldn;t know "ignorance" if it bited you in the ass Shi!"

Sorry pattycakes. You said something that was blatanty wrong, and I corrected your idoicy. You lose.

"The only "proof" you have for that is Fulmaier."

Sorry, Boshko has already shown you to be wrong, their have been many threads about this already. It is just so funny in order to back yourself up you go to a letter to the editory.

"It's just that supporters of fascism and tirtures as well as genocide and murders of political prisoners turn my stomach."





Proof is in his own words, people. Paitkis admits my trolling gets to him!


"You hate Greeks with a passion."

No. I love MarkG. And I love you, too . You bring so much laughter into my life!

"meanwhile you keep supporting a murderous regime, namely that of Turkey"



I wonder how many more time Pattycakes will shriek out "You support Turkey! You are a murderer"

"So yes you are qualified for being called a murderer of peoples."

Murderer of peoples? You know that would make a good sig!

"Plus, i think it pisses you off BIG TIME that Turkey is in shreds both economically as well as socially and politically while Greece is going forward at full speed."

Nope, so long as Turkey continues to support USA dominance in the Middle East I am fine. It makes it easier though Turkey being a democratic state.

"Which is it?"

Entertainment value.


About Kurdistan, say what you want, but there is certainly no genocide there. Considering how the KLA was defeated and Turkey occupies Kurdistan and STILL Kurds make up 20% of Turkey's population show that Greek claims of Genocide are lies.


Have a nice day, my friend Paitkis.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm going to regret this, but what made the Ottomans so barbaric?

You are wasting your time. Paiktis is probably the biggest nationalist on these forums, and interestingly, he's Greek. In his mind the Greeks can do no wrong, and the Turks can do no right. Hell, even Mark is a little like this. I wonder if the Greek schools promote brainwashing or something.

And no, that was no troll. Simply the truth of what I've observed.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Hahahahahahahahahaha, you are a pathetic troll. I sent you into a complete frenzy last time when I explained to the visiting Turk how you are a right-wing nationalist. Or how about the time I exposed you as a CIA agent? I crush you just like Kemal Ataturk crush you.

No comment needed here I think. The empathy is obvious

You still haven't given us any neutral sources regarding the Greek War of Independence to go against the common historical belief that Greece was saved by allies.

There is no such perception in Greek, international or even turkish historians.

It would do your dilusional mind some good not to interpet your fantasies or trollings as undisputated reality

Sorry pattycakes. You said something that was blatanty wrong, and I corrected your idoicy. You lose.

I said that Turkey roled over and played dead which is exactly what happened. Meanwhile the ontribution of Greece was immense condering its size. And that you can't refute either.

Sorry, Boshko has already shown you to be wrong, their have been many threads about this already. It is just so funny in order to back yourself up you go to a letter to the editory.

First, you dont have to apoligize so frequently.

Second Boshko trolled and was called on it. For all other info see my previous post, little deranged turk

Proof is in his own words, people. Paitkis admits my trolling gets to him!

Yes, it bothers me when people support tortures and massacres. I already said so. Its not you so dont take it as a praise. It is a general repulsion Ihave to these sort of people. Luckily they are very few, Namely in Poly, only you.

No. I love MarkG. And I love you, too . You bring so much laughter into my life!

hmm, I think that this time I have you really cornerned

I wonder how many more time Pattycakes will shriek out "You support Turkey! You are a murderer"

You thrive on tortures and murders committed by Turkey. You will hear it every time you do this. Untill you stop.

Murderer of peoples? You know that would make a good sig!

Thanks But due credit is to go to the european left wing It is the one calling people like you this. I just thought it was 100% appropriate for you

Nope, so long as Turkey continues to support USA dominance in the Middle East I am fine. It makes it easier though Turkey being a democratic state.

Oh, I think it does bother you. And Turkey is not a democratic state by any means. But keep your propaganda, noones buying it anymore anyway.

Entertainment value.

And yet you seemlike you try to fight a bad curse

About Kurdistan, say what you want, but there is certainly no genocide there. Considering how the KLA was defeated and Turkey occupies Kurdistan and STILL Kurds make up 20% of Turkey's population show that Greek claims of Genocide are lies.

The EU talks about slaughters of civilians and this is true. Kurds will constitute 40% of turkey's population in 2020 so kurdish independence is coming despite the better efforts of Turkey's paramilitary whoch murdered tons of civilians through the years.

Have a nice day, my friend Paitkis.

If you cant beat them, join them huh?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You are wasting your time. Paiktis is probably the biggest nationalist on these forums, and interestingly, he's Greek. In his mind the Greeks can do no wrong, and the Turks can do no right. Hell, even Mark is a little like this. I wonder if the Greek schools promote brainwashing or something.

And no, that was no troll. Simply the truth of what I've observed.

well all I can say my dear Imran is that your change from a proponent of american capitalism and the american republicans to a strong (and substansive I might add) critic of american policies after the recent "muslim-scare" in the US, provide evidence that noone is ever really lost

so there might be hope even for.. Shi

BTW you really dont know me and your observations are not very penetrating as I see, so you might as well give up

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW Shi seems to have left the arena bruised yet one more time. So what else is new?

He seems to have an unprecedented "ability" to lose all the arguments he ever had the unfortunate inspiration to entagle himself in

I just hope he did some reading on Turkey's most recent massacres... Of course Greek (EU - oops) propaganda.

Of course.

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW Imran you saw that others which know the history of these parts far better than you subscribed to my position (which is not actually mine but that of historians).

So there's something wrong with your reasoning, if you think it's all Paiktis' "nationalism". Nationalism is cool for trolling sodding types like Shi but facts are facts and as you saw are delivered by others, not me.

Plkus it always amuses me that's it's just the usual trio Shi, Boshko and Faeelin that have a bief with Greece.

Shi is the one who got it up the (ahem) hard though and now it has become a habbit for him.

[Faeelin]

Originally posted by VetLegion
actually, jenisaries (janjicari) were not only a greek-turkish phenomenon, turks stole children from mothers in the entire balkans. later, they would become a significant force in turkish politics, but their initial purpose was to be fanatical soldiers. and they were.
but it was a very very cruel practice. it fits to modern definition of genocide.

Yes, it was very, very, very bad.

But:

Janissaries had oppurtunities for massive social advancement, and would later on be essential in dictating the sultan himself.

Not to make light of it, of course. But considering how they weren't converted by the sword (as was the standard practice in Spain with the inquisition), and were free from all other military service, it wasn't as if they were enslaved.

Besides that, all the Ottomans demanded of the greeks were higher taxes.

For all the insults the Ottomans are getting, get this:

CHRISTIAN SERFS FLED TO THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE ACROSS THE BORDER.

I hate to say this in caps, but the point has to be made. These people knew the difference between bad and worse. This was not a one time occurrence, either. In every situation where the Ottomans bordered Christians, this happened.

You're calling the only culture in Europe at the time that allowed multiple religions, besieged Vienna, defeated Venice, encouraged the arts, and built what was once one of the greatest cities in Europe barbaric?

Here's a quote, btw, about the reaction of the Ottoman entrance into Athens:

"o the Ottomans it was known as the "city of the wise," and Mehmed, their "wise and great Philhellene monarch" was duly impressed by its relics of classical antiquity. He especially admired the Acropolis. He treated the Athenians magnanimously, confirming their civil liberties and exemption from taxes, but delighted them especially... by granting priveliges to the Orthodox clergy".

Oh, here's a choice bit:

"Hencefoward Pax Ottomanica reigned there, replacing the feuds of the Franks, while the Greek people were treated with reasonable tolerance-unburdened with excessive taxation, exempted from the tribute of children, permitted freedom to trade and to elect their own local government."

[MOBIUS]

Personally I'm all for the Elgin Marbles returning to Greece, but whenever I see Piaktis bleating on about it - I always change my mind!

We (Europe) keep your tinpot little country propped up - have done for ages. And before you start whining on about Turkish human rights problems - look closer to home in the country with the worst human rights record in Europe...

You're such a rabid nationalist you blind yourself to what's happening in your own backyard...

Sure we took your Marbles (In between protecting your sorry little country), they were bought, maybe not from the right people but there was a real probability at the time that they were going to be turned into materials for concrete...

But do you deserve them back? Athens was a pollution hell-hole when I was there and the Acropolis was literally crumbling away from the smog - then there's your appalling human rights record... Those poor bloody Albanians get a really raw deal in Greece don't they, I've heard it's about as bad as what the Serbians were dishing in Kosovo - the only difference is there's no KLA. Yet!

Sh1t! You guys won't even let some other country call themselves Macedonia to the extent that you threatened them with economic sanctions!

Come back when you deserve it!

Nyah Nyah Nyah-Nyah!

[Bereta_Eder]

well since vetlegion isnot around I dont see why not replying to you.

Originally posted by Faeelin


Yes, it was very, very, very bad.

Small cchildren were teared away from the arms of their crying mothers AGAIN AND AGAIN and you call that too bad?

I think there's something wrong with your morality.

Let's see your apologes for these horrors

But:

Janissaries had oppurtunities for massive social advancement, and would later on be essential in dictating the sultan himself.

So you say that all the tother people lived in poverty. You are correct.

Not to make light of it, of course. But considering how they weren't converted by the sword (as was the standard practice in Spain with the inquisition), and were free from all other military service, it wasn't as if they were enslaved.

They were stolen from the embrace of their mothers faeelin. get this through your thick skull.

Besides that, all the Ottomans demanded of the greeks were higher taxes.

no comment. There have been plenty of massacres and horros in the ottoam occupation. Saying that all they wanted was taxes is some kind of crap revisionist propaganda.

For all the insults the Ottomans are getting, get this:

CHRISTIAN SERFS FLED TO THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE ACROSS THE BORDER.

BULL**** BYZANTINES FLED TO VENICE AND ITALY TO GET AWAY FROM THE SAVAGES!

Are you of this planet Faeelin?

You're calling the only culture in Europe at the time that allowed multiple religions, besieged Vienna, defeated Venice,

Yues. Barbarians CAN defeat civilized people. Happened with Rome too. But the turks were even MORE barbarians

encouraged the arts, and built what was once one of the greatest cities in Europe barbaric?

ROTFLMAO encouraged what arts?

And Constantinople was alrady there. They turned it into one big ass islamic bazaar, hardly an achievement

"o the Ottomans it was known as the "city of the wise," and Mehmed, their "wise and great Philhellene monarch" was duly impressed by its relics of classical antiquity. He especially admired the Acropolis. He treated the Athenians magnanimously, confirming their civil liberties and exemption from taxes, but delighted them especially... by granting priveliges to the Orthodox clergy".

The same clergy which the turks later massacred.

And you make an invasion which as any had murders liberation. Carry on little fool

"Hencefoward Pax Ottomanica reigned there, replacing the feuds of the Franks, while the Greek people were treated with reasonable tolerance-unburdened with excessive taxation, exempted from the tribute of children, permitted freedom to trade and to elect their own local government."

Greeks were always better treated than the rest of the Balkan people by the Ottomans.

that does not mean they were not treated badly and that the islamic ottoman culture was not oppresive uninovative and dark compared to what was happening in Europe, little fool


You can now close your 3rd grade turkish book of history

[Bereta_Eder]

MOBIUS just wait for your dirty bomb like a good puppy to dismember what's left of your "empire"

we can take the marbles in our radioactive suits no problem

hell a brit talking about racial equality
you have race riots poor guy.

[Faeelin]

Of course Paik. I apologize for quoting a book which is universally praised for its objectivity, clarity, and insight into the Ottoman Empire.

I will now sit in a corner and wait for the lecture about how Oceana has always been at war with Eurasia.