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US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies

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  • #196
    Postal Service won't join TIPS program
    By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID
    Associated Press

    WASHINGTON - The Postal Service has decided not to take part in a government program touted as a tip service for authorities concerned with terrorism, but which is being assailed as a scheme to cast ordinary Americans as "peeping Toms."

    ....
    http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/...cs/3681788.htm

    Hopefully, this will make some of you feel a little better.
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    • #197
      Good for them.
      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

      Comment

      • #198
        It's merely people doing their jobs while keeping their eyes and ears open for suspicious activity. No more no less.
        -Which is very much what the communist secret police informers did.

        That's good DinoDoc, but nothing makes me feel better than the fact that Bush's approval rating is now at 62% and falling.
        "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
        -Joan Robinson

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        • #199
          Originally posted by Sir Ralph


          Don't try to tell me, that Russia has no secret service, whatever its name is, and that nobody from the old KGB serves in it.
          Without breaking into laughter?
          |"Anything I can do to help?" "Um. Short of dying? No, can't think of a |
          | thing." -Morden, Vir. 'Interludes and Examinations' -Babylon 5 |

          Comment

          • #200
            Originally posted by drake
            Guess what everyone, people can spy on you now and report bogus info to the police, fbi or any other government agency they want to. Just because your friggin milk man thinks you're suspicious and calls this tips line doesnt mean 10 minutes later some swat team is going to knock the guys door down. The information gathered would obviously be sorted and filtered. Every single tip reported is not going to be acted on. Or do you guys disagree?
            If it is possible now, then why make a new system?

            Sorry, I'm not buying the stated purpose for it. At best it's a useless "do something" bit of PR. At worst, I'm sure you'll be wondering why History whacked you over the head with a club. Doubt you'd listen to what it was saying, though...
            |"Anything I can do to help?" "Um. Short of dying? No, can't think of a |
            | thing." -Morden, Vir. 'Interludes and Examinations' -Babylon 5 |

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            • #201
              I don't think the government will recruit everyone that signs up for this program. I'm sure that they will carefully screen applicants to ensure that they can be trusted.
              HAVE A DAY.
              <--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
              "And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
              For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

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              • #202
                Originally posted by drake
                It's merely people doing their jobs while keeping their eyes and ears open for suspicious activity. No more no less.
                I'm not so sure about that. I think the government will do everything it can to get this 4% actively involved in keeping the community safe. It will probably even work to get these citizen "spies" to team up and work together.
                HAVE A DAY.
                <--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
                "And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
                For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

                Comment

                • #203
                  I don't think the government will recruit everyone that signs up for this program. I'm sure that they will carefully screen applicants to ensure that they can be trusted.

                  Only the trusted can betray trust.

                  I think the government will do everything it can to get this 4% actively involved in keeping the community safe.

                  Could it round up those 4% into concentration camps and keep those safe? My community is safe enough without any crackheads reporting things they see me do while on dope.
                  Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

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                  • #204
                    Originally posted by DinoDoc
                    Does that statement work in the opposite direction as well? Would you say that the people oppossed to the TIPS program are supportive of the spread of the CCTV cameras? Because I'd like to know British feelings about that.
                    Only if the two situations are equal, so, no, it doesn't work both ways. I would consider this spying to be slightly more disturbing than the use of CCTV in Britain.

                    Basically, X is worse than Y (X being TIPS, Y being CCTV), thus while it's reasonable to accept Y whilst damning X, you can't reasonably accept X and damn Y.

                    Comment

                    • #205
                      Originally posted by St Leo
                      Only the trusted can betray trust.
                      Rarely.

                      Could it round up those 4% into concentration camps and keep those safe? My community is safe enough without any crackheads reporting things they see me do while on dope.
                      That's your problem, crackhead.
                      HAVE A DAY.
                      <--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
                      "And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
                      For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

                      Comment

                      • #206
                        Here is a link to the documentation for the U.S. Patriot Act:

                        http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/lawsregs/patriot.pdf


                        This link requires that you have the Adobe Acrobat Reader installed to view it.
                        HAVE A DAY.
                        <--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
                        "And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
                        For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

                        Comment

                        • #207
                          They should take a leaf out of the nazi's book

                          Recent research has shown that the nazis controlled the German population with surprisingly small numbers of gestapo, as few as a section of 2 or 3 officers even for major German cities or even a whole region with millions of people. They were able to do this because ordinary Germans were more than willing to monitor and report ot the gestapo on their neighbours without being recruited for the purpose.

                          Given the patriot movement in the U.S. I'm sure many U.S. citizens are similarly motivated to spy on their neighbours.

                          Sad really.
                          Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                          Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

                          Comment

                          • #208
                            You just don't get it, do you, Drake?!

                            As they say, the proof is in the pudding, so how about you pull your finger out of your arse and check out the pudding?

                            It's not the neighbourhood watch that's bad, but the denial of natural justice. Let's do a list of things that can/will happen and see if it's right or wrong. This is only my opinion, but at least this way we can argue the facts. You're saying that because we should agree with it in principle, we should agree with whatever form it takes. That is absurd! Anyway, here goes.....

                            Watch for suspicious activity: good
                            Report suspicious activity to authorities: good
                            Authorities make enquiries: good
                            Authorities come into your home without a warrant: bad
                            Authorities hide surveillance devices in your home without notifying you: bad. Under common law, citizens have the right to know when they are suspected of illegal activity. This would be a gross denial of common law.
                            Authorities make report on alleged suspect: What? No charges have been laid?! Doesn't a report constitute a presumption of fact? Isn't anyone who reads that report in years to come going to presume the suspect to be suspicious, irrespective of substantiation?

                            This is not about waiting an extra few minutes at airports. Nor is it about formalising what already happens, because under your current laws, when accusations are made against you, you are entitled to know unless they are dismissed without further investigation. Reports cannot be made about you unless you are formally charged. If the charges are ultimately dismissed, no formal reference to your presumed guilt can be kept in official records. It's these changes to common law that are the issue, not whether or not people should be alert for terrorist activity!

                            I also imagine the individual states might have something to say about their laws being made redundant whenever it's suits the federal government

                            Comment

                            • #209
                              USA uber alles.
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

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                              • #210
                                Most of you don't remember the Cold War. This kind of mindless snooping and snitching is nothing new. It wasn't confined to the communist countries.

                                Ever heard of "reds under the beds"?
                                Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                                Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

                                Comment

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