US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies

[drake]

Che, you obviously don't trust the people because you expect this program to be corrupted. Your expectations from the people that will participate in this program are extrememly low.

You expect failure before even giving any of these people a chance.

[Victor Galis]

Why should we trust people who are willing to spy on their neighbours?

[chequita guevara]

We have already seen that the current system of citizen tips to police is abused. We have seen the the government has abused the Constitutional Rights of citizens and residents on the flimsiest of evidence. Why can't you seem to put the two of those problems together?

I'm expecting failure based on existing corruption and abuse of the system. I see no reason to expect that magically this will be different. Give me a reason to believe that despite existing abuse and corruption, this won't further erode our rights. Why will this be different?

[drake]

So the people can't be trusted now to provide legitimate information, so why would they be trusted to do it ever is basically what youre saying che? Didnt you just say you trusted the people?

For every 100 tips, if 1 criminal is caught isn't it worth it? Isn't your friends 5 minutes of inconvenience worth capturing someone that is potentially dangerous? No one was hurt. She was cleared. End of story.

As someone with nothing to hide, I wouldnt feel at all bothered by someone asking to take a look around my place. Christ its just stuff we're talking about here. A few minutes of my discomfort is a sacrifice I'm ok with. You're not. Thats fine.

Victor, keeping ones eyes open for suspicious activity does not = looking through binoculars 24/7 spying on your neighbors.

[chequita guevara]

So instead of answering my question you're flinging red herrings and ad hominums. Good rebuttal. In other words, you can't say why the new system won't be abused any more than the system that already exists.

[Q Classic]

for ever 100 tips, 99 are wrong;
say that these people are detained. in camp bravo at guantanamo bay.

yay, we caught 1 terrorist-- the 99 others remain, languishing, not being prosecuted or investigated by the government, being refused civil defense, and not being able to go home.

that's actually kinda happening now.

[Ned]

I wonder if being a member of Apolyton is "suspicious activity?"

[drake]

Red herrings, ad hominems.....

Yes, it will have problems, yes there will be people who act irresponsibly and yes some people will be treated un-fairly. It may not improve on the current system.

Despite potential inaccuracies and corruption, good things can still in fact come from these exisiting programs. And therefore, perfect system or not, it can still be effective.

Like police officers. Many a corrupt police officer in this country, but the police still serve a valuable function.

Theres not going to be a perfect fix to anything. Someones always going to be unhappy. I just happen to think that the sacrifices that may be made are worth it.

[drake]

Cubed, POWs are relevant to this in what way? Thats another issue. Call those guys what you want, they're not terrorists, they're foot soldiers.

[Victor Galis]

For every 100 tips, if 1 criminal is caught isn't it worth it? Isn't your friends 5 minutes of inconvenience worth capturing someone that is potentially dangerous? No one was hurt. She was cleared. End of story.

-What of the 99 wrongly accused?

As someone with nothing to hide, I wouldnt feel at all bothered by someone asking to take a look around my place. Christ its just stuff we're talking about here. A few minutes of my discomfort is a sacrifice I'm ok with. You're not. Thats fine.

-You may not think you have something to hide, but realize that a paranoid enough person could still accuse you falsely of crimes you didn't commit.

Victor, keeping ones eyes open for suspicious activity does not = looking through binoculars 24/7 spying on your neighbors.

-So then why start the program. We can just keep our eyes open without the encouragement to actively spy.

[drake]

So then why start the program. We can just keep our eyes open without the encouragement to actively spy.

I agree....though this is little more than just that with an 800 number.

[Q Classic]

drake, the problem is, those people at guantanamo--
they're not POWs!

scandala! see, the thing is, if they were designated POWs, they'd get the geneva convention protection. that's not happening; if they were considered terrorists being investigated into, they would be allowed civil protection.

they're stuck in this limbo, and that's what i'm afraid might just happen if this whole informant thing is taken way too far.

[drake]

cubed, i understand that they arent being given that designation, but that is in fact what they are. Thats really another debate isn't it.

We're arguning about the way information is obtained by the government, not necessarily the way the information is used to punish someone. Or have we gone down that path?

I don't know. I think what the original discussion was, was lost awhile ago

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by Victor Galis


Yeah, CCTV cameras in public places don't violate the privacy of homes, and they deterr criminals by allowing law enforcement to catch them after the fact. This would try to catch people before they did anything!

You're overexagerrating!

[Victor Galis]

I agree....though this is little more than just that with an 800 number.

-That's not what the site makes this sound like. If I am indeed exaggerating the problem, it's bad PR on their part.