Rugby - The beautiful game

[finbar]

The Beautiful Game Bank A/c (as at 21/7/02)

Sorry, guys, I hadn't realised until just now that Mickeyj had placed a bet prior to the match. I've recalculated the winnnings accordingly. Obviously, because Mickeyj backed the Boks, it only increased the snatch for the AB backers.

I also don't know how I missed Mickeyj's bet. Presumably I was daydreaming about spending the massive haul I was going to share with Tamerlin.

FYI, Mickeyj, we're betting margins rather than straight out. The Boks were given 12 points start for the match. You backed the Boks. For you to collect, the Boks would've had to finish within 12 points of the ABs. Or draw the match, or win it.

Anyway, following last night's match, our updated Bank A/c reads as follows:

academia 82+30 = 112

Andydog 70+52 = 122

Caligastia 87+30 = 117

finbar 80-20 = 60

Havak 70+46 = 116

LDiCesares 102

Mickeyj 100-30 = 70

ravagon 70+46 = 116

Tamerlin 105-20 = 85

If I were to tell you how much it thrills me to have to make these tortuous calculations - in which every bastard seems to be becoming rich except me - I'm sure you wouldn't believe me.

PS. For the sake of my sanity, can we bet only in units of 10? Please? Andydog?

[ravagon]

Well damn. Much as I hate to say it - not wanting to appear biased in any way of course (who moi? ) - but I found it a thoroughly entertaining match - even during the first 20-odd minutes when the Boks were leading!
Both teams really tried to run with the ball and brought it off - AB's picking up their game as time went on while the Boks slipped a bit and were overtaken on the scoreboard.
Even the ref seemed to manage his end pretty well (and being an Aussie to boot! Or does a Brisbanite not count in this regard? ) although I must admit I can rarely tell which way the ruck calls should have gone and this was no exception.

The real question for next Saturday will be whether or not finbar is going to back the favourite this time?
I must admit I'm going to have to think about this too.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
The real question for next Saturday will be whether or not finbar is going to back the favourite this time?

Depends on the margin that's calculated. Can someone - other than a South African or Australian - please give the margin some thought?

[ravagon]

Umm ... Off the top of my head I'd probably give up between 12 and 16 points (split the difference and make it 14 I guess) to the Wallabies ... er, sorry, slip of the tounge - I meant the Boks.

Might want to leave it till a bit later in the week - until the teams become finalized ... ?

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
Umm ... Off the top of my head I'd probably give up between 12 and 16 points (split the difference and make it 14 I guess) to the Wallabies ... er, sorry, slip of the tounge - I meant the Boks.

Might want to leave it till a bit later in the week - until the teams become finalized ... ?

On the basis that the Boks only had 12 start against the ABs, I wouldn't argue with 14 against the Wallabies. In reality, I think it should probably be more, as it should've been against the ABs.

I agree about leaving it till later in the week to finalise it. I just wanted to get some input. I suspect the Wallabies won't change much. David Lyons might start in place of Owen Finnegan for reasons of mobility. Apparently Stirling Mortlock should be fit again after straining his shoulder against the ABs.

[Havak]

Don't we ?

We certainly do.

the Eales protégée

Ah yes that had slipped my mind. You can’t really get a better start than to be groomed by Ealesy. What is the lads name again? And a South African wearing Australian colours? It’s not like the wallabies to be picking non-Australians (how quickly was he made an Aussie when it was discovered how good he was?)

And you know I think you underestimate JH

As a player – possibly. He has potential. What he also possesses is a fatal Achilles heal. Unlike a certain other lock of aggressive renown what Justin possesses is a hair trigger temper that finds him causing violence on the pitch rather than reacting to it – it’s a terrible flaw in his game. Incidentally I think off the field he is a nice bloke – he interviews very well - but on it he needs to tone down the violence. If you get a ref like David ‘Pedant’ McHugh or Steve ‘Look at me’ Lander (who ran the line Saturday) Justin will walk more often than not – and that does not help the team much does it?

There's plenty of development going on.

This is a very good thing. As I have said before the game needs a strong Australian side – there are just so many of us out here who live to beat them.

Don't they have straws over there?

The pain killers I take react quite interestingly with alcohol. I’ve learnt it’s best to avoid the pop whilst taking them from experience.

One day I'll hear of a losing team praising a ref

Don’t faint but I thought Dickenson had a solid game – and I don’t normally rate him.

I have to say I thought South Africa did reasonably well – I was pleasantly surprised at the very positive way they tried to play and I think they did expose that the AB defence is not as solid as it should be? The Aussie-AB game in Aus should be very interesting now?

After all Tune doesn’t rate either of the other teams in the tournament (proving yet again Finbar that he suffers from a touch of the Healeys?)

And for Tamerlin - Tigers play Toulouse in a pre-season friendly on 24th August - I'll let you know what I think of Tournaire and of course your team after that game.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak

Ah yes that had slipped my mind. You can’t really get a better start than to be groomed by Ealesy. What is the lads name again?

Buggered if I can remember!

And a South African wearing Australian colours? It’s not like the wallabies to be picking non-Australians (how quickly was he made an Aussie when it was discovered how good he was?)

His name's Vickerman. The whole family moved here about 5 years ago. When he started to show potential, the Boks invited him back. He declined.

As a player – possibly. He has potential. What he also possesses is a fatal Achilles heal. Unlike a certain other lock of aggressive renown what Justin possesses is a hair trigger temper that finds him causing violence on the pitch rather than reacting to it –

Phew! I'm glad I was dreaming when I thought I saw "a certain other lock of aggressive renown" start something.

Don’t faint but I thought Dickenson had a solid game – and I don’t normally rate him.

I didn't see the whole game but I thought he did a sound job. He kept the lid on when it could've turned ugly a couple of times.

I have to say I thought South Africa did reasonably well – I was pleasantly surprised at the very positive way they tried to play and I think they did expose that the AB defence is not as solid as it should be?

The Bok aggro was interesting and quite deliberate, from what they're now saying. There's more in store for us. God bless the Mind Games. Their skipper was cited for biting but was cleared. As I say, I didn't see the whole event, but they looked like they have potential.

The Aussie-AB game in Aus should be very interesting now?

In anything other than arctic conditions, it will be a terrific game.

After all Tune doesn’t rate either of the other teams in the tournament (proving yet again Finbar that he suffers from a touch of the Healeys?)

What did Ben have to say? It wasn't reported here. He's probably so excited to have finished a game without some body part falling off him that he was blathering.

And for Tamerlin - Tigers play Toulouse in a pre-season friendly on 24th August - I'll let you know what I think of Tournaire and of course your team after that game.

Beaut! An unbiased opinion.

Havak - What do you reckon the margin should be for the Boks -v- Wallabies?

[Havak]

I'm glad I was dreaming when I thought I saw "a certain other lock of aggressive renown" start something.

Indeed you were.

I watch him week in and week out and I have never seen him start anything. I have however seen him guilty of very excessive reaction if that makes you feel better?

The Bok aggro was interesting and quite deliberate, from what they're now saying.

It’s pretty much what I expect from them, their style is historically, um, combative?

I’m still not sure they can really trouble the Wallabies mind you – certainly not in Australia anyway? I just think the clash will be interesting as the Boks made a better go of breaking the Kiwi defence – admittedly in vastly better conditions. I’m really lost how to call the spread on this one.

In anything other than arctic conditions, it will be a terrific game.

Where are they playing – the Gabba? That’s nicely enclosed?

What did Ben have to say?

Lets see – the choice bit is:
“We weren't overly impressed by the skill level of the teams," Tune said in an interview broadcast on Australian TV. "There's nothing there that surprised us or is making us particularly worried. We realise that if we play to the best of our ability we can beat both those teams."

Its perhaps a little ungracious? It’s fine to say you aren’t worried but dissing opponents skill levels, particularly one week after losing to one of them, seems a bit off?

Beaut! An unbiased opinion.

I thought all my opinions were objective fact?

Seriously I can be objective(ish) when the need arises – and I’m not stupid enough to take Toulouse lightly – they are a class side. I am looking forward to seeing our new signings and to see if it works having Healey as our number one fly half.

The latter point I am totally unconvinced about. He can turn a game from there - but you never know which way

I need more time to think about the margin. My instinct says a comfortable Wallaby win, but I’ll have to think about the points difference carefully.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Indeed you were.

I watch him week in and week out and I have never seen him start anything. I have however seen him guilty of very excessive reaction if that makes you feel better?

*finbar trawls through myriad tapes he doesn't even have in his collection*

Where are they playing – the Gabba? That’s nicely enclosed?

Yeah, Brissy.

Lets see – the choice bit is:
“We weren't overly impressed by the skill level of the teams," Tune said in an interview broadcast on Australian TV. "There's nothing there that surprised us or is making us particularly worried. We realise that if we play to the best of our ability we can beat both those teams."

Its perhaps a little ungracious? It’s fine to say you aren’t worried but dissing opponents skill levels, particularly one week after losing to one of them, seems a bit off?

If I recall, that was actually said before the Tri-Nations started. I think I saw the show. He was talking about the Kiwis after Italy and Ireland and the Boks after the Pumas. The first two sentences seem to confirm that. That aside, I don't think there's anything paticularly untoward about it. Pretty standard stuff.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak


We certainly do.

I could not imagine another answer...

And for Tamerlin - Tigers play Toulouse in a pre-season friendly on 24th August - I'll let you know what I think of Tournaire and of course your team after that game.

Yes, this match is scheduled since a few weeks now, it will be interesting to see our respective recruits. I'am particularly eager to hear some comments about our first and second raws as this was one of the main weakness of Toulouse last season when it has been the Strength of the "Stade Toulousain" for many seasons.

[Havak]

The BBC web site if definitely reporting Tune's comments as if they were made after last Saturdays game?

No that it matters much - it's not like he said both sides were crap?

I'am particularly eager to hear some comments about our first and second raws

I'll pay close attention to them and strive to be as objective as possible.

It seems not everyone agreed with my assessment of the ref, catch the comments of other fans here

[Mickeyj]

Hmm quite a few people unhappy about the ref, the players knew what they were in for and should have been better disciplined.

Does anyone know why he didn't call a scrum when the kick-off didn't go ten?

And a South African wearing Australian colours? It’s not like the wallabies to be picking non-Australians (how quickly was he made an Aussie when it was discovered how good he was?)

Don't forget Tiaan Straus who left when he didn't get on with Francois Pienaar.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
The BBC web site if definitely reporting Tune's comments as if they were made after last Saturdays game?

No that it matters much - it's not like he said both sides were crap?

I just found the report on the BBC site. It's certainly purporting that he said it after the ABs-Boks match. Beats me. I distinctly recall similar words being used by someone a few weeks ago. Maybe the Wallabies are recycling their quotes. Anyway, it wasn't said on any of the rugby TV shows here - there's only one, in fact, it's weekly, and it doesn't air till tomorrow night. I'll watch it and see if it appears. Regardless, it's just the standard mind games stuff. The Boks are already telling us all the pressure's on us and they're going to outmuscle us and so on and so on.

It seems not everyone agreed with my assessment of the ref, catch the comments of other fans here

I say again - has a losing rugby fan ever praised the ref? The complaints about the crap throw in should be directed to the linesman (or assistant referee, or whatever they're called these days). There was a similar case in the ABs-Wallabies game last week. The ball didn't travel the 5m from an ABs throw, but it had no impact on the game. I also find it faintly amusing that the Bok fans are grizzling about how the ref handled the fisticuffs when it was the Boks who were instigating the aggro. A strategy, as they confirmed later.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Mickeyj

Don't forget Tiaan Straus who left when he didn't get on with Francois Pienaar.

Oddly enough, Tiaan came here to play Rugby League. He had at least one season of Cross Country Wrestling before crossing over to rugby. Interestingly, his time with the NSW Waratahs saw a lot of internal bickering and a coach undermined. Damn rugby-playing lawyers!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Mickeyj
Hmm quite a few people unhappy about the ref, the players knew what they were in for and should have been better disciplined.

Agree.

Does anyone know why he didn't call a scrum when the kick-off didn't go ten?

I didn't see the whole game and missed this incident. According to one of the whingers at Planet Rugby, the ref just called play on. If so - and if an opposing player hadn't touched the ball - the ref got it wrong. If an opposing player hasn't touched the ball, the opposing skipper has two choices: another kick off; or a scrum on halfway.