Poles burn Jews alive - Nazi's blamed.

[The Vagabond]

In what concerns GDP, I found the following numbers in the CIA factbook.

Russia
GDP -- $1.12 trillion (PPP, 2000 est.)
per capita -- $7,700

Poland
GDP -- $327.5 billion (PPP, 2000 est.)
per capita -- $8,500

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html

Luk's data should correspond to GDP expressed in dollars at the (speculative) exchange rate. Even so, Russia's number seems too low. It should be about $350-400 billion.

We have as many rusofils as rusofobs.

Do you want to say that their numbers are approximately the same?

[Heresson]

Ah, so that's PPP! I didn't know what was it in fact. So it's CIA. You can't believe it. They take all the numbers out of the moon. I already told once about the case of Yemenian population which was counted by CIA up to a single person while last researches were made 15 years ago or more...
No, no, no, that's definitely not a good resource.

[The Vagabond]

I know that Armenian politics are pro-Russian, but it's not so sure with Kazakhstan.

With the exception of the Baltic states, no other former Soviet republic has essential reasons to hate Russia. So all these pro-Russian and anti-Russian stances are just a matter of convenience: it depends on which one brings in more profits. It should not be confused with a matter of principle.

Coming back to Poland, what is really sad is that Poland has become a most vocal proponent of Russia's isolation from Europe and the civilized world. It seems that Poland's dream is to build a kind of sanitary cordon around Russia.

[Heresson]

hardly any country hates the other one on principles.
Greece and Turkey had problems with each other but I believe that if Turkey returned Cople and western Asia Minor too Greece, Greeks would love it

We're not trying to isolate Russia. The problem is that Russia still thinks in "spheres of influence" categories,
which manifested in ordeing what their neighbours should or should not do (it's no Russian case if Poland or Lithuania or whoever joins NATO or EU). that's it.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Heresson
Ah, so that's PPP! I didn't know what was it in fact. So it's CIA. You can't believe it. They take all the numbers out of the moon. I already told once about the case of Yemenian population which was counted by CIA up to a single person while last researches were made 15 years ago or more...
No, no, no, that's definitely not a good resource.

Unthankful Poles! They (the States) granted you an official visit, and yet this is what you are saying about their intelligence agency.

Anyway, you are always free to make reference to a good resource.

[Heresson]

I think that one of Luk is good. Just count it...

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Heresson
hardly any country hates the other one on principles.

Well, if so, then you recognize that the anti-Russian stances are often merely a question of money... It's an important point. I'll keep this in mind for later.

We're not trying to isolate Russia. The problem is that Russia still thinks in "spheres of influence" categories,
which manifested in ordeing what their neighbours should or should not do (it's no Russian case if Poland or Lithuania or whoever joins NATO or EU). that's it.

It's no Russian case if a military alliance expands to our borders??

As for EU, isn't it possible to do in such a way that the interests of Russia and her citizens not suffer?

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Heresson
I think that one of Luk is good. Just count it...

Luk's number for Russia is suspiciously low. At the very least, if this number has anything to do with reality, it corresponds to 1998 -- the crisis year when the ruble underwent a four-fold devaluation versus the dollar.

[Serb]

Heresson,
Don’t read it please. The post below contains a lot of cruel things that could hurt your national pride, because you have unhappiness to be a fellow citizen of moron known as Luk. Who cares? you said that we always we enemies. Read it.

You starting to yell at me!!!! That is good It means you have no arguments

First of all, I didn’t say it before, because I was in hurry and didn’t have time for it. Now I have. So, you mr. Skywalker is a typical nazi as$hole. Before you appeared Heresson and me have a funny conversation. We thumped in our chests, but tried to made it with jokes and tried do not offend each other, to made it as funny as possible. We just enjoyed a funny talk and the most important thing- we have doing this without HATRED toward each other and with enough amount of respect to each other. Even if sometimes some of us could find a joke of his opponent as a bit cruel. (Heresson if you still read it, correct me if I’m wrong and please stop reading it)

You are absolutely different. As I said, you are typical nazi as$hole. Every single word you said is full of hatred, you hate us. Not just me, you hate all Russians. Your arrogant signature describes your silly nazi nature very well. Just tell me how old are you? 15? 17? If so, then perhaps it’s temporary and you have a chance to become normal men in future. If not, then you are hopeless nazi. If so, then I can only regret that you are so far away and that I can’t offer a full contact sparring to you, because in that case I would really like to kick your brainless as$.

It was an introduction. Now I’m back to your bullsh!t post, Mr. Hitler’s as$. You wanted a “**** compare contest”? Fine, let it be.

You are not strong country. Even your military is big only in numbers, but old very, very old. Many of your tanks, submarines, and airplanes are not fit to fight, and you have no money for fuel.

Am I mistaken or the majority of your army consists of arms of Russian design? The old models of weapons designed by US, because you ever weren’t possible to create a single model of good quality weapon. It is you who have really rusty weapons, because aside you, we are able to replenish old models of our weaponry with
the new samples, which we constantly invent. Because aside you, we are creators of those weapons and aside you we have a technologies and an industrial base to do so. We are the World’s second largest arms dealer after USA. So, shut the f*ck up, mr. “Bulls!tstories”.

Your conscripts can not fight, and steal a BMPs to drink a vodka (you know what I mean).

No, I don’t know what do you mean. And if had a chance I’ll gladly showed to you how Russian conscripts could fight. I bet I could easily kick your as$ even if my arms will be tied.

I do not think that you could conquer Lithuania, Estonia, or Latvia, I not mention about Poland,

Your problem is that you think that we want to conquer them. Only bullsh!ters like you could seriously believe in such bullsh!t. Your problem is your “small penis complex”. You are afraid of us and you hate us because of it. That’s why you are enjoying when we have troubles. The people like you remind me a coyotes. Takaya zhe padal. When Russian bear was strong, people like you smiled to him, kissed his as$, tried to please him by all means that you can, but when Russian bear was wounded, you’ve started to laugh on him, to torture him, to saying that it was you who feed him and protect him from enemies, not otherwise, you are started to saying that you are much stronger then he is. Poor, silly, nazi coyote, you didn’t realize that no matter how loud you scream, the bear will always will be the bear and that sooner or later he will recover from his wounds, but you, PERSONALY you and people like you will always will be a coyotes.

which will have for a moment new airplanes from USA, and Leopards 2 from Germany... So definitly you are weak.

So you bought a couple of old American planes (I can assure you that they will never sold you modern examples of their weaponry. They are anybody, but not a complete idiots) and a couple of old German tanks (you didn’t mentioned which second model of Leopard you bought. I guess that the one of the oldest, but it’s really doesn’t matter, because they are still no match for Russian tanks. They have good cannon, but bulky design, low maneuverability, lower speed, much larger silhouette, much heaviest weight, less power, absence of active defense etc.) and it means that definitely we are weak?

Your nuclear devices are in 3/4 not capable for attack etc. etc.

Where did you get this mr. “I know everything about the most secured national secrets of foreign countries” (but in fact know nothing about nuclear weapons)? I can assure you that “RVSN”-“Raketnie Voiska Strategicheskogo Naznacheniya” is the best-equipped and the most ready part of army. In case that you don’t know, (and I(‘m sure that you don’t) the nuclear weapons it is not the type of things you could maintain with economy for yourself. It should be maintained properly or don’t maintained at all. And anyway 1%, ONE PERCENT of our nuclear potential is more then enough to turn your entire country into radiated desert. So again, shut the f*ck up.

-Typical stupid (Russian) argument No comments

Idiot. I was laughed on you. And gave to you this stereotype about Poles and stolen cars as an answer to your silly stereotype about Russians and vodka.

- Maybe... If Turkey wants to be in Europe, why Armenia not?

Oh sure, why not? But why not Bangladesh? Or Republic of Chad?

- You Russians like lie and cheat. Thats your charachteristic feature, isn't it?

No. I always thought that that Poles have monopoly on that. Which my words exactly you consider as lie?

Hahaha... It calls ignorance, and lack of knowledge of diplomacy...

No, it calls “The best of Luk’s bullsh!t stories. Vol. 2”

Official visit is official visit, this range of visit in Bush over 2 years presidency in USA had president of Mexico, and now president of Poland. Putin, Sharon etc. was in America not in official international visit in America meaning of this word. Official visit has its right - the army parade, official dinner etc.

It’s very precious definition of the meaning of an ‘official visit’. You just forget to mention about fireworks and dancing on capital’s main square after military parade. Military parade? In Washington D.C.?

Putin was in rancho etc. but it was no official visit.

Putin was on Bush’s rancho after he had an official dinner and after regiment of US guardsmen in airport greeted him. And btw, when about month ago Bush were in Moscow he also was greeted by regiment of Russian guardsmen in airport and have an official dinner and etc. Aside those two times, our presidents unofficially meet with each other very frequently, but I don’t see why it’s a big deal. And I don’t understand why it’s a big deal for you and why do you think that one in two years meeting of your president with an American president is some kind of God’s blessing.

I think you should start watch CNN or read an international newspapers instead of Russian propaganda. And you should start learn about rules of diplomacy.

And I think that you should buy yourself some kind of brain enhancer. Perhaps it will help to advance your
thinking ability to average level.

- Well... It is only what you can propose Ukraine... Gas, and oil...

And they can offer to us even less- the empty promises that someday they will pay for this.

Leonid Kuczma is a friend of our president because he wants it, and is friend of your president because he must.

If you are so close friends why you don’t give them gas, oil or electricity almost for free like we do?

What major partner you are??????

Do you ever heard about G8? It’s strange why so powerful country, with such brilliant economics as Poland it isn’t a member.

You have 140 mlns of people, and you have less then 1/2 of total foreign investition in Poland, buhahahah. You are too center minded.

150 mln of people it’s a little bigger then your 39mln. Actually, if I remember correctly it’s a World’s 5th largest population, after China, India, Indonesia and USA.

Europe are interested in Russia only because you have Nuclear weapons.

Oh sure, “My words are backed with nuclear weapons”. Right?

Yes... only what you have to propose is military, and space programs... That is it...

Until we have at least one ICBM and at lest one spaceship, we will always be considered as powerful and technologically advanced country. Until you didn't have at least one you will always will be just a traders.

It is all builded in SU.

Less then a month ago Russia was build another nuclear submarine of “Akula” (“Typhoon” by NATO classification) class. It’s the World’s most powerful nuclear submarine today. I don’t know how to say “vodoizmeshenie” on English the most closer words is “the weight of water it pushes when it dives” is 47 000 tons. It is more then some surface battleships. One launch of its missiles is enough to wipe out all life from entire Europe. If you think that month ago we lived in SU, you are mistaken.

Russia is not a SU, and will not be... Try to understand it

It is not and it will never be again. We’ll never return to communism. It is you who can’t understand it.

No one cares opinion of Russia. USA can do everything, and Russia can only back its decisions. Putin understood that and do everythink what USA wants, because Russia is now a vassal of USA, the same like Poland. The real danger will be China. Russia with pathetic economy, and potential of declining 140 mln populations is an average country, that will not be even regional power for next 20-30 years

First, I realize that my English is far from the best, but yours….
Second, speak for yourself. If you think that you are vassal of USA. Fine. I guess they care about your opinion even less they are care about Mexican. But aside you, like it or don’t like Mr. Bush have to deal with us. And aside you we are the constant member of UN Security Council. And btw, (in case that you don’t know) Russian language aside Polish, is one of the official languages of United Nations.

- Well... This film is created by... Russians

So what? You think I didn’t know this?
This film is based on low-grade criminal novel. Such books usually contain a lot of crimes, alcohol, drugs, sex etc. When you watch Hollywood’s movie which contains the same bulls!t, you imagine USA as country of high bandits too?



P.S. Vagabond, ty kak vsegda vovremya, a to menya etot Luk Skywalker uzhe poryadkom podzaebal Ostalos eshe kakomu nibud Veideru poyavitsa I voobshe veselo budet. Neslishkom li ya kruto razoshelsya? Sploshnye naezdi i udary sebya pyatkoi v grud. A nu i hren s nim, vnature vivel blin on menya iz sebya.
Dial-up pochinil, winXp sucks win98 navsegda.

[The Vagabond]

Serb, normal'no napisal. Emotsional'no, no pravil'no i dazhe v ramkah prilichiya. V lyubom sluchaye etot tip ne zasluzhivaet chtob s nim tseremonilis'. Pozdravlyayu po povodu dialupa.

[Luk]

Well, I have 20 years old and I study law at 300 years old Wroclaw University

I won;t answer to you pathetic speech and yelling that Im Nazi because it is a prove that you have no arguments, and like you exciting like a little boy

You should be proud that Im answering to your post, and find a time for you

"Am I mistaken or the majority of your army consists of arms of Russian design? The old models of weapons designed by US, because you ever weren’t possible to create a single model of good quality weapon. It is you who have really rusty weapons, because aside you, we are able to replenish old models of our weaponry with
the new samples, which we constantly invent. Because aside you, we are creators of those weapons and aside you we have a technologies and an industrial base to do so. We are the World’s second largest arms dealer after USA. So, shut the f*ck up, mr. “Bulls!tstories”. "

-It is a pity that our arms are Russian design, because it is a bunch of crap and unusefull metal. Russian technics of creating weapons is very poor. We create very good pistols, very good Machine pistols, and Rifles, much better from yours. We modified T-72 to PT-91 Twardy standard, which won few months ago the contract to Malysia beating even T-90 and T-80. After 95 you have invented almost anything. Your "new" things" are from Soviet times. etc. etc. You are second largest arms dealer because your products buy countries which can not afford or can't buy from political purposes Western weapons. It is like with jeans... When you can not buy original jeans of Levis, you walk to Russians on the marketplace in Poland and buy from them a cheap tandeta

"No, I don’t know what do you mean. And if had a chance I’ll gladly showed to you how Russian conscripts could fight. I bet I could easily kick your as$ even if my arms will be tied. "

- Heh... You live in Russia and even do not know about last "action" of Russian Soldiers. They stealed BMP-1 at night and drive it in the store where vodka was sold only because they wanted to drink it. Russian soldiers are not famous of being good. During II WW you won because of numbers not quality.

And most of Polish-Russian conflicts finished in Polish victory, even in 1920 year, where we was in the state of creating our country and army after 123 years of occupation. In XVII century, the army of one Polish Nobleman (sic!) conquered Moscow you were so pathetic.

"Your problem is that you think that we want to conquer them. Only bullsh!ters like you could seriously believe in such bullsh!t. Your problem is your “small penis complex”. You are afraid of us and you hate us because of it. That’s why you are enjoying when we have troubles. The people like you remind me a coyotes. Takaya zhe padal. When Russian bear was strong, people like you smiled to him, kissed his as$, tried to please him by all means that you can, but when Russian bear was wounded, you’ve started to laugh on him, to torture him, to saying that it was you who feed him and protect him from enemies, not otherwise, you are started to saying that you are much stronger then he is. Poor, silly, nazi coyote, you didn’t realize that no matter how loud you scream, the bear will always will be the bear and that sooner or later he will recover from his wounds, but you, PERSONALY you and people like you will always will be a coyotes. "

- I never said that Russia wants to conquer anyone (except Chechenya And you are not bear now, but a duck rather If your population will decline you will soon have as many people as Lithuania has And do not forget, that in XV, XVI century our Polish King even did not think about you puny state, because it was for them state like San Marino or Liechtenstein. Only because unfortunate Union with Lithuanians you grow in power, if we wouldn't be so stupid and conquer Lithuania instead of Union we would smash Russian Tribes without problem, and now you would talk Polish instead of Russian

"So you bought a couple of old American planes (I can assure you that they will never sold you modern examples of their weaponry. They are anybody, but not a complete idiots) and a couple of old German tanks (you didn’t mentioned which second model of Leopard you bought. I guess that the one of the oldest, but it’s really doesn’t matter, because they are still no match for Russian tanks. They have good cannon, but bulky design, low maneuverability, lower speed, much larger silhouette, much heaviest weight, less power, absence of active defense etc.) and it means that definitely we are weak?"

- We want to buy F-16 with a possibility to by F-35 for several years, that is good for me, because F16 is checked plane, and Russian MiGs never destroyed any F16 in fight, but F16 destoyed many Russians MiG. And do not forget that F-35 is far, far, far away from F-16 technicaly.

German Tank it is Leo 2A4, not newest, but better from all Russian types of T-72, T-80, and I think better then T-90. Better cannon, better survivability, better created, better electronics, optics etc. etc. And you have not any of T80 and almost no T90, and your T72 are pathetic, old, and one word - a piece of rubbish

"Where did you get this mr. “I know everything about the most secured national secrets of foreign countries” (but in fact know nothing about nuclear weapons)? I can assure you that “RVSN”-“Raketnie Voiska Strategicheskogo Naznacheniya” is the best-equipped and the most ready part of army. In case that you don’t know, (and I(‘m sure that you don’t) the nuclear weapons it is not the type of things you could maintain with economy for yourself. It should be maintained properly or don’t maintained at all. And anyway 1%, ONE PERCENT of our nuclear potential is more then enough to turn your entire country into radiated desert. So again, shut the f*ck up. "

- Well, even if it is the best finansed part of your army it is far too less money for supporting 6000 warheads. I think now you support 1500-2000, and all other are freezed. Your submarines almost don't swim, they are in ports and they grow rusty. Your system of controls are bery old and in very bad shape, your radar stations are almost all turned off. You have problems with mantaining 1-2 sattelites still working etc. etc. Look www.fas.org. Do I have to qoute ????

And do not forget that we are in NATO, one nuke throw in our territory, and you will have the same

"Oh sure, why not? But why not Bangladesh? Or Republic of Chad?"
- Why... Look to Athlas, if you have one

"No. I always thought that that Poles have monopoly on that. Which my words exactly you consider as lie? "
- I said it after you said that in Baltic States you have 30-40% minorities

"If you are so close friends why you don’t give them gas, oil or electricity almost for free like we do? "

- We will give them the gate to the democratic world, to the UE, and to NATO:0

"Putin was on Bush’s rancho after he had an official dinner and after regiment of US guardsmen in airport greeted him. And btw, when about month ago Bush were in Moscow he also was greeted by regiment of Russian guardsmen in airport and have an official dinner and etc. Aside those two times, our presidents unofficially meet with each other very frequently, but I don’t see why it’s a big deal. And I don’t understand why it’s a big deal for you and why do you think that one in two years meeting of your president with an American president is some kind of God’s blessing. "

- Putin had no official dinner (but had a dinner), and regiment of US Guardsmen generally greets all heads of countries in unofficial visits. The official is when the cannons fires etc. Thats a slight differences between official and unofficial visits. The official visits in America are not often in America. As I said I won't argue on facts and finish this thema because I will not argue on issues "Does sun shine, or not?"

"Do you ever heard about G8? It’s strange why so powerful country, with such brilliant economics as Poland it isn’t a member. "

- Only because of Nuclear Weapons

"150 mln of people it’s a little bigger then your 39mln. Actually, if I remember correctly it’s a World’s 5th largest population, after China, India, Indonesia and USA. "

- 150 mln is in your dreams And you forgot Brasil, Pakistan, Mexico, etc. Nigeria, Japan, and few more countries are almost equal...

And as I said... You have 30 mld$ of investitions of foreign capital, and Poland has over 60 mld$. Thats a quite big difference of interesting foreigners of Poland and Russia

"Until we have at least one ICBM and at lest one spaceship, we will always be considered as powerful and technologically advanced country. Until you didn't have at least one you will always will be just a traders. "
- I want to live in a free, rich and democratic country, which has no ICBMs, then in poor, semi-free, and authoritarian country where vodka is a symbol of happines

"Less then a month ago Russia was build another nuclear submarine of “Akula” (“Typhoon” by NATO classification) class. It’s the World’s most powerful nuclear submarine today. I don’t know how to say “vodoizmeshenie” on English the most closer words is “the weight of water it pushes when it dives” is 47 000 tons. It is more then some surface battleships. One launch of its missiles is enough to wipe out all life from entire Europe. If you think that month ago we lived in SU, you are mistaken. "

- Well, this submarine is not so good as you describe - it is very noisy, far noisy then Western counterparts, and is developed technically in SU. And I do not think that this boat will be often leaving its port. And as I said now... It is far outdated now, when USA has Seawolfs and Virginia class boats

"First, I realize that my English is far from the best, but yours….
Second, speak for yourself. If you think that you are vassal of USA. Fine. I guess they care about your opinion even less they are care about Mexican. But aside you, like it or don’t like Mr. Bush have to deal with us. And aside you we are the constant member of UN Security Council. And btw, (in case that you don’t know) Russian language aside Polish, is one of the official languages of United Nations."

Bush do not have to deal with you with anything. You have to deal with him to grow your economy, and you do all things to do such a things. You let them into bases of former republics, you let NATO expanse, you let them into Georgia... And you let them for that what Bush asks... You are vassal, sad but true But we are closer vassals and we have profits with it much more bigger then you

"So what? You think I didn’t know this?
This film is based on low-grade criminal novel. Such books usually contain a lot of crimes, alcohol, drugs, sex etc. When you watch Hollywood’s movie which contains the same bulls!t, you imagine USA as country of high bandits too? "
- Yes but even in that Hollywood movies they do not drink vodka to breakfast, lunch, dinner, and supper, and to be more honest, the breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper are only addition to vodka

-------------------------------

The athlas method is far more better then PPP which is estimated very freely.

My data about GDPs was from 2000 year from www.worldbank.com

[Ned]

Serb, Luk, Herreson, et al., as an American, it is an honor to have your countries as friends and allies. We in American wish you only the best.

I think the Poles joined Nato and seek to join the EU because they feel part of the West - they are a Roman Catholic nation.

I still do not understand why the Ukraine would want to join either Nato or the EU. They are brothers of the Russians and share the Orthodox faith or at least their traditions. I do not see Russia becoming part of the EU, but forming its own "commonwealth" with other Slavic and Orthodox nations.

I think this because of the obvious Russian national pride, and also because the Russian Orthodox church remains extremely hostile to the Pope.

I beleive, for example, that Serbia remains strongly in the Russian camp.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Ned
I still do not understand why the Ukraine would want to join either Nato or the EU. They are brothers of the Russians and share the Orthodox faith or at least their traditions. I do not see Russia becoming part of the EU, but forming its own "commonwealth" with other Slavic and Orthodox nations.

I think this because of the obvious Russian national pride, and also because the Russian Orthodox church remains extremely hostile to the Pope.

Didn't Russia recently express a desire to join NATO? If so, could putting ouy feelers about joining the EU be far behind?

[Luk]

Well... Ukraine has more common with Poland then with Russians. Ukraine started to be under Russian control since XVII century, and in XIX, and XX century Ukraine was conquered by Russians. Russians always wanted ro rusificate this territory, but as their culture is rather poor "colonoization" of Ukraine was not so easy. Still many Ukrainians are a bit nationalistic, antirussian and directed toward Western, Latin civilization. I have to say that Ukraine was in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth longer time then under Russian control. Almost all cultural achievments are from that times.

So I think it is time to bring back Ukraine into European Society, and pull out Ukraine from Russian hands.

And dear Americans... remember that we, Poles are your friends because we want it, and Russians are your friend because they must. And we Poles always were your friends, even when our country had to cooperate with Soviet Union.

------------------------------------------

And one more time to GDP numbers measured in PPP style. One year ago, CIA stated that Russia has GDP about 650 mld $ PPP, now it has 1.12 trillion $ PPP... Did you have almost 100% growth, or Putin started to be good to USA?

And www.worldbank.com is cruel... And they have political resons in their asses... The athlas method says... Russia has 250 mld $ GDP. It is almost like in African countries. I bet that many Africans live better then in Russian province, where vodka is the most precious article

[Saras]

Vagabond, pervyj prikaz ekonomista - never CRU ekonomiceskoi statistike

Serjozno.