An Unborn Child is in Fact, Human

[Jaakko]

Curious how no pro-lifer has replied to my questions...

[Jon Miller]

that probably means that we all missed them in replying to others

that is the usual reason

repost them

Jon Miller

[November Adam]

it is easier to take if one thinks that a fetus is an organ, a "non-entity", than as a seperate organism.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I'm a big fan of summing up the whole issue by quoting Bill Hicks' message to pro-lifers.

"You lose. Sorry. Get over it."

[November Adam]

thats the silliest sum up I've seen RJ.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

But brutally accurate, NA.

[November Adam]

you know I don't even know if abortion should be illegal, but I would like it if people would stop trying to de-humanize the whole thing.

Our society has decided it is alright to kill humans before they have developed sentienience. Accept this. If you don't like it then rethink your stance. If you are okay with it then continue to be pro-choice. I don't like it so I am pro-life.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by November Adam
Ramo would it be immoral to remove assitance to a brain dead individual if we knew the brain was repairing itself and would be back to normal in say 4 months?

...or you could say the same about someone who is asleep who is there, unconscious, but will wake up...

...of course it is not the same, this person is still there and will be still there and has a life, probably with dependents. It's a different matter entirely.

[Jon Miller]

so you are saying that your right to life depends upon your quality life

that seounds really shallow to me

Jon miller

[November Adam]

PH many people say they feel it is not immoral to unplug someone on a machine due to the sentience factor.

I was asking if the sentience would come back can you unplug the person?

Everything else is irrelevant. Unless your saying a person is as only allowed to live if they make an impact on society.

[Provost Harrison]

I am just examining that statement. I think it is the right of the mother to do what she wishes with her body.

[Jaakko]

Well, here are the questions Jon:

Originally posted by Jaakko
For the pro-life folks:

Since you want to make abortion illegal, what should be the proper punishment for doing such a deed?

What should be done with pregnant women who want an abortion regardless of the law forbidding it?

[Jon Miller]

so it is the right of the killer to do what he wishes with his body

even murder

(yah, this is not good debate but Ramo disappeared and the proabortion crowd is not debating so why should I?)

Jon Miller

[Stefu]

Sometimes I wonder whether slavery arguments followed this general pattern.

Abolitionist: Slavery is evil.
Slaveocrat: You abolitionists just want to meddle with owner's right to decide what he wants to do with his plantation. MY PLANTATION, MY CHOICE!
Abolitionist: Yes, but you shouldn't hold human beings as slaves.
Slaveocrat: Yes, but what does human being mean? Certainly you don't mean that Negroes are like us whites. *pulls out a "study" that "scientifically" proves black people are equivalent of monkeys* See? Since Negroes aren't humans, you shouldn't meddle with our right to own animate property.
Abolitionist: Slavery is a crime against humanity.
Slaveocrat: Well, it's obviously not criminal to own slaves, so it's not a crime.
Abolitionist: People should be free, because...
Slaveocrat: Free? FREE? How can abolitionists speak of freedom when they don't support the right to own animate property? All you abolitionists are like John Brown, killing people for sake of animate property! YOU ARE WRONG! YOU ARE WRONG!
Abolitionist: But...
Slaveocrat: YOU ARE WRONG! Think about it - if we end right to own animate property, who does it hurt? The poor white people who have to compete with freed animate property, and who can't climb out of their poverty via traditional way of owning animate property! Abolitionists want us to be like up North, where capitalists treat white people like trash!
Abolitionist: Well, no...
Slaveocrat: AND ANOTHER THING! If we put forth the abolition, then the Negroes will just run around and go killing white people! Some freedom-lovers - you just want people KILLED! You just want to infringe on people's right to own property, you TYRANTS! Such hypocrisy!
Abolitionist: I don't think that's...
Slaveocrat: And another thing! Even your beloved Negro will suffer! Owning of animate property will undoubtedly continue in another form, like tenant farming, but because there no longer is bond between slave and his owner, Negroes will be brutalized, both by their masters and poor whites angry at end of slavery! There will be lynchings! Worse than slavery, any day!
Slaveocrat: Let me now demonstrate how stupid the abolitionist position is! If we take it to logical conclusion, soon we will take Orang-Utans out of jungles and give them vote and let them marry white women! Do you abolitionists support THAT? Do you? Do you?

...et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseaum...

[Jon Miller]

Jaako

I want you to answer these questions

whhat should be done about murders? (if say their wish to murder is becuase the person they murdered was making their life miserable or something)

what shold be done with those who want to murder despite the law forbiding it? (same reason for the wish in this case as above)

good post Stefu

Jon Miller