SAT no longer standardized

[Q Classic]

well, sucks for my brother, he'll have to take the new one.

i'm glad i got through it. three hours of pure boredom... and honestly, the SAT isn't really that great of a test. for a lot of people who apply for the more expensive institutions, the SAT score starts to mean less and less-- the elite schools, for instance, don't really count the SAT for much in their decisions for accepting students.

low-end and high-end schools don't care. it's the overburdened large, state, mid-level schools that end up relying on them the most.

[TCO]

Ramo, when I went to HS (South Lakes High School 1980-84) we barely touched on SAT related stuff.

One more data point...

[KrazyHorse]

I was born in 1980...

[Shi Huangdi]

"Do you seriously believe school and teacher curriculums won't change due to this change in the SAT?"

It depends on how much is done with Algebra II. If enough of it is on there, it may lead to more people taking Algebra II when they aren't ready to take it. But since almost everyone takes Algebra II anyway it won't make too much of a difference.

"Of course, statewide standardized tests generally have much more significant effects than the SATs'

Correct, for instance Virginia's standards of learning tests.

"Unfortunately, that's not the norm. Most people don't far past taking geometry by their junior year."



You're joking, right? At my school I'd sat at least 97% of the people take Algebra II at least by their senior year. I hope my school more resembles the norm then yours....

"And pressuring College Board into changing the SATs would be a helluva lot easier than pressuring state gov't's into changing their tests."

I doubt it. The College Board is a non-profit private orginization that is there to serve the universities, so pressuring it won't be easy. If there is to be change, it'd have to come from the universities. And the universities have done alot in speeding up curriculums- you'll have a hard time getting into a good school if geometry was your highest level math course. Also, more students are taking AP tests then ever before because AP classes help you get into college.

In any case, Ramo, you can cause significant change in only two subject with the SAT, those being English and Math. It would do nothing for history, science, or foreign languages.

"the elite schools, for instance, don't really count the SAT for much in their decisions for accepting students.

low-end and high-end schools don't care. it's the overburdened large, state, mid-level schools that end up relying on them the most."

Yes, they do. You'll have a lot easier time getting into a top school with a 1600 then with with a 1350. And in any case those large state unis you mention are where most people go.

[Victor Galis]

It depends on how much is done with Algebra II. If enough of it is on there, it may lead to more people taking Algebra II when they aren't ready to take it. But since almost everyone takes Algebra II anyway it won't make too much of a difference.

-If you're not ready to take Algebra II by the time you're a junior, you have no business going to a good college anyway.

You're joking, right? At my school I'd sat at least 97% of the people take Algebra II at least by their senior year. I hope my school more resembles the norm then yours....

-I took Algebra II around late 9th grade/first semester of 10th grade, then moved into Precalculus in 10th grade. I'm not really sure what the norm is at our school, but there are a good deal of students who take AP Calc. as juniors.

In any case, Ramo, you can cause significant change in only two subject with the SAT, those being English and Math. It would do nothing for history, science, or foreign languages.

-That's what SAT IIs are there for.

Yes, they do. You'll have a lot easier time getting into a top school with a 1600 then with with a 1350. And in any case those large state unis you mention are where most people go.

-True, but the 1600 doesn't guarantee you admittance, it just gets them to look at you.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Victor Galis




-True, but the 1600 doesn't guarantee you admittance, it just gets them to look at you.

so....?

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Ramo

I find that very hard to believe.

I'll go over the exact way my school "prepared" me for the SAT.

In English, we take vocabulary quizzes. These aren't just for the SAT though. I have spent about 7 hours total taking these during my first three years in high school. I haven't studied for these for more than another 5 hours (which is pretty typical at my school). That is no more than 12 hours spent on studing for the English part of the SAT.

In Math, we just followed the book the first two years. In my Junior year, we also spent three days taking pratice SAT math sections. We spent no more than 2 hours on this.

Because of this, preparing for the SAT was a very insignificant part of my education in school.

[Urban Ranger]

I don't see how SAT tests somebody's aptitude. As far as I can see, all that stuff is knowledge, not some sort of inclination, suitability, or talent.

[Shi Huangdi]

"

-If you're not ready to take Algebra II by the time you're a junior, you have no business going to a good college anyway."

Right, and whether Algebra II is on the SAT or not, you'll still have a hard time getting into a good college without taking Algebra II.

"I'm not really sure what the norm is at our school, but there are a good deal of students who take AP Calc. as juniors."

That's nice for them, but how does this relate to the subject of how adding Algebra II will change school curriculums.

"

-That's what SAT IIs are there for."

Exactly, the SAT IIs are meant for that. And because the SAT I doesn't cover those subjects, you coulnd't use it to change the overall HS curriculum.

"In English, we take vocabulary quizzes. These aren't just for the SAT though. I have spent about 7 hours total taking these during my first three years in high school. I haven't studied for these for more than another 5 hours (which is pretty typical at my school). That is no more than 12 hours spent on studing for the English part of the SAT.

In Math, we just followed the book the first two years. In my Junior year, we also spent three days taking pratice SAT math sections. We spent no more than 2 hours on this.'

Yes, we had pretty much the same thing here, except we spent maybe a week in maybe both math and English prepping for the SAT. Of course, Ramo is in Texas, and who knows what they do down there.....

[Ramo]

dp

[Ramo]

It depends on how much is done with Algebra II. If enough of it is on there, it may lead to more people taking Algebra II when they aren't ready to take it. But since almost everyone takes Algebra II anyway it won't make too much of a difference.

Not everyone takes Algebra II by their junior year. I've known many people who haven't taken it till their senior year. Besides, I said that it was a first step.

If, for instance, precal or calculus were added to the SAT, do you doubt school curriculums would change?

At my school I'd sat at least 97% of the people take Algebra II at least by their senior year.

The SAT is taken during the junior year. Many people do not take Algebra II by their junior year.

The College Board is a non-profit private orginization that is there to serve the universities, so pressuring it won't be easy.

Much easier than pressuring every single state legislature.

And the universities have done alot in speeding up curriculums- you'll have a hard time getting into a good school if geometry was your highest level math course.

There are no serious barriers to college if you take algebra II senior year.

In Math, we just followed the book the first two years. In my Junior year, we also spent three days taking pratice SAT math sections. We spent no more than 2 hours on this.

Taking practice SAT tests is not the only way to prepare students for the math part of the SAT. The student does need to be relatively knowledgable in algebra and geometry.

Ramo, when I went to HS (South Lakes High School 1980-84) we barely touched on SAT related stuff.

I was born in 1984.

In English, we take vocabulary quizzes. These aren't just for the SAT though. I have spent about 7 hours total taking these during my first three years in high school. I haven't studied for these for more than another 5 hours (which is pretty typical at my school). That is no more than 12 hours spent on studing for the English part of the SAT.

I remember doing SAT prep type stuff sophomore year in English...

[Victor Galis]

so....?

-The point was that those schools don't rely too heavily on the SAT.

I don't see how SAT tests somebody's aptitude. As far as I can see, all that stuff is knowledge, not some sort of inclination, suitability, or talent.

-Yes, but the math is very basic knowledge that everyone should have.

Right, and whether Algebra II is on the SAT or not, you'll still have a hard time getting into a good college without taking Algebra II.

-I don't even know if Tech offers a math class below Calc I, and just about everyone has to take Calc I and Calc II to graduate.

If, for instance, precal or calculus were added to the SAT, do you doubt school curriculums would change?

-No, but they'd change for the better

The SAT is taken during the junior year. Many people do not take Algebra II by their junior year.

-By some people. You don't have to take it before the fall of your senior year, which means you could take it right at the end of your junior year. (which is when I took my SAT IIs).

There are no serious barriers to college if you take algebra II senior year.

-Au contraire. You are either going to a school that is doing a **** job of preparing you, or you are stupid, both of which I would consider serious barriers.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Ramo
Taking practice SAT tests is not the only way to prepare students for the math part of the SAT. The student does need to be relatively knowledgable in algebra and geometry.

That is all we did aside from study the book though. That is the only way it affected my cirriculum.

Originally posted by Ramo
I was born in 1984.

As was I.

Originally posted by Ramo
I remember doing SAT prep type stuff sophomore year in English...

Not every school is the same.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Victor Galis


-The point was that those schools don't rely too heavily on the SAT.

It is a significant factor. Try applying to Hravard with a 1350 or with a 1600. Students know that it is significant. I had lousy HS grades but still had a shot at the top schools because of a high SAT. GOt into Cornell and Duke. Which I never would have purely on grades.

[Victor Galis]

That is all we did aside from study the book though. That is the only way it affected my cirriculum.

-It could also have affected the selection of the book, although given the book selection process, any sort of purpose when picking the book is unlikely.

I had lousy HS grades but still had a shot at the top schools because of a high SAT. GOt into Cornell and Duke. Which I never would have purely on grades.

-Maybe, but nowadays it depends a lot more on how well you can BS on your essay. I sent MIT the same one I sent Tech (and I thought it was crap), and didn't get in. I wrote another crap essay for Stanford, and didn't get in. I wrote my best essay for Berkeley and got in there. I could just feel that that essay was better. The others were carefully crafted BS, while the Berkeley one just flowed freely without so much BS on a topic I very much enjoyed... I only wish I had completed the Berkeley application before the MIT one, because then I would have sent MIT my Berkeley essay... not that it matters, since I would still have ended up at Tech anyway (cheap, defective falling stock prices).