SAT no longer standardized

[Apocalypse]

Shi Huangdi: Exactly.

Victor Galis: The problem with the APs can be fixed with even more standardization. Everyone should be provided the same opportunity to take any course. If the school does not provide a course, then the student should be provided with a school that does.

[Victor Galis]

Umm... I seriously want you to think about that last statement.

[TCO]

Galis and Ramo, you miss the key issue with the SAT. It is not a pat on the head for smart little AP kids (like you). The purpose is to serve as a predictive estimator for college performance. And more specifically to do what Apocolypse said. (An independent additional differentiator after grades.) Look into the field. Study the regressions and statistical surveys. Quite a bit is available on the College Board website. You might learn something...too! I have not been impressed by either of you in your understanding of multi-factor regressions, Design of Experiments (DOE), surveying methodologies, etc.

[Victor Galis]

Galis and Ramo, you miss the key issue with the SAT. It is not a pat on the head for smart little AP kids. The purpose is to serve as a predictive estimator for college performance.

-The problem is that it doesn't differentiate adequately around the top end, and being a poor test taker can be the difference between a 1500 and a 1350.

[TCO]

Do you have some proof of your statement? How flawed is it in that range? (I've done a fair amount of interviewing of 1350 and 1500 type applicants. I noticed a real difference between the 1350 group and the 1500 group.) I would agree that from about 1500 to 1600 it has some issues. At the very high ranges of course there are issues since performance is capped at 1600 of course. But as I said before, the test is designed for the general population not gving little Victor Galis a pat on the head or telling him whether he is MIT material or is more of a YellowJacket at heart.

I doubt the variability of test scores for people at 1350 is much different than that of people at 1000, from test to test. (Feel free to prove me wrong--I'm very eager for you both to start thinking more scientifically in this area.)

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Umm... I seriously want you to think about that last statement.

I have. I'm part socialist, part libertarian. Education and child care is my socialist side. Everyone should be provided with an equal opportunity until they decide to end their education.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Shi's point is very important. English will now count 2x as much as math. Writing is very subjective and if the person doesn't like what you say, even though you might have written a masterpiece, you can bet that they'll take off for it.

People with bad handwriting are unneccessarly impaired as well.

Keep only the ovals!

[Victor Galis]

I have. I'm part socialist, part libertarian. Education and child care is my socialist side. Everyone should be provided with an equal opportunity until they decide to end their education.

-No, I meant, the feasibility. For you to suggest that EVERY person should be allowed the same opportunity, you are implying that if Bubba from Tifton, GA really wants to take AP Art History he should be given the chance. A noble idea, but far too expensive. On the other hand I had my pick of just about every AP class, except AP European History

Down with writing!

[Apocalypse]

It may not seem feasible, but something major must be done to give people a more equal chance in life.

[Victor Galis]

It's rather difficult to envision how you would give people in South Georgia (where schools are dozens of miles apart) a chance to take even close to the same difficulty of classes that we can get in DeKalb County.

[Apocalypse]

It is difficult. I would explain how it should be done in detail, but that would definitely lead to a threadjack. Though I'd really like the amount of posts that would produce (this is already the most successful thread I've ever created at ACS), I'd rather stay remotely on topic.

[Shi Huangdi]

"Yes, but what if your school doesn't offer that many APs? Having AP tests cover for the failures of the SAT doesn't work that well, because people like me who had the opportunity to take up to 12 AP classes"

This isn't having AP test covering for the failures of the SAT. Testing knowledge of advanced subjects is not something the SAT is designed to do. If a school has a lacking of AP classes, they can either do an independent study for the AP or take more SAT II's.

"If the school does not provide a course, then the student should be provided with a school that does."

A more practical solution might be to provide the courses online.

"(I've done a fair amount of interviewing of 1350 and 1500 type applicants. I noticed a real difference between the 1350 group and the 1500 group.) "

Employers actually look at the SAT!? What exactly are you hiring for?


Excellent points, Imran.

[Ramo]

It is not a pat on the head for smart little AP kids (like you).

I agree. In fact, that's exactly what I wrote.

The purpose is to serve as a predictive estimator for college performance.

I see that as one of the purposes. The other purpose, IMO, is to fix our school system.

It may not be the "official" purpose, but it's a damn good way to get the job done.

The SAT isn't meant to set the guidleines for school's curriculum, Ramo.

It does, though.

However, if we fix the test, it would serve as a pressure for reform of our school system.

And because college administrators do like to see students take the hardest classes available, people taking AP classes is becoming more common and so people take harder classes that way.

BTW, the high school I went to freshman year didn't have AP tests (at least I don't recall it having any).

[Imran Siddiqui]

However, if we fix the test, it would serve as a pressure for reform of our school system.

Um... that's not the point, and shouldn't be the point of the SAT. Or are you comfortable with the idea that we should endorse that a private company sets every school's ciriculum? Guess you aren't as opposed to vouchers as you might think .

[Ramo]

Or are you comfortable with the idea that we should endorse that a private company sets every school's ciriculum?

They do already. What difference does admitting it make?

After we admit it, we can take advantage of the fact.

Guess you aren't as opposed to vouchers as you might think .

I'm not, as long as the poor have a fair shot. Like I said in the other thread, I'd like a program along the lines of FAFSA during high school and perhaps earlier.