SAT no longer standardized

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Ramo
The SAT is a baseline test. This very fact is what affects curriculums currently.

You can use the same argument for saying the SAT is cirriculum based.

Originally posted by Ramo
The level of classes isn't anywhere nearly as important as SAT scores or GPA's.

This isn't entirely correct. People who take really easy courses are looked down upon.

[Victor Galis]

Bah. I walk in drainage ditches at times.

-Yes, but if you can teach me how to walk through trees, then I will be forever in your debt

I've done both policy and LD. Policy is a little more evidence based, but you can spend a great amount of time just attacking their evidence instead of looking for your own.

-Policy is quite mechanical. LD is not done at my school. Now, most rounds I've been in, if I attack their evidence, they counter by saying I'm not providing any and so I get tied down to reading cards to support my points. (Keep in mind, the year I did debate we were debating foreign policy with Russia, so cards were largely required... though I did have some fun in CX asking someone what they thought about the 14th army, and why Russia couldn't use that for whatever we were debating. I got the funniest stares)

It could be about a few things, but you just have to look at the trend and look for what was leaked out before the test.

-Or you could know everything like you're supposed to. I didn't get a 5 knowing only selective pieces of info.

[Ramo]

I'm sorry, but if you are going to keep arguing this, would you please explain was is so f***ing important about calculus? I know it is important for many people, but few go into a field where they'd need to know it by the time they are done with their junior year.

I'm not saying that absolutely everyone should take calculus. But everyone should have the opportunity to do so. And standards should increase from the sorry state they currently are at.

Putting calculus on the test would be a pressure, nothing more.

You're answers are non-responsive at this point, Ramo. If you have something useful to say, please do so. Otherwise, I'm wasting my time.

How are your answers any more responsive than mine?
You think that standards should be set locally, I disagree.
You think that the SAT should predict college performance only, I disagree.

[Victor Galis]

This isn't entirely correct. People who take really easy courses are looked down upon.

-Maybe, but taking 10 APs and German 5, and Multivariable certainly didn't do me very much good as far as getting into college was concerned... but hey, at least I started out as a sophomore

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
-Yes, but if you can teach me how to walk through trees, then I will be forever in your debt

You are being silly. Walk between the trees.

Originally posted by Victor Galis
-Policy is quite mechanical. LD is not done at my school. Now, most rounds I've been in, if I attack their evidence, they counter by saying I'm not providing any and so I get tied down to reading cards to support my points. (Keep in mind, the year I did debate we were debating foreign policy with Russia, so cards were largely required... though I did have some fun in CX asking someone what they thought about the 14th army, and why Russia couldn't use that for whatever we were debating. I got the funniest stares)

There must have been LD done at the tournaments. Just because your school doesn't practice it doesn't mean you can't do it. My debate practice consists of things like me making fun of my English teacher for playing console games all the time. If they counter by saying you lack evidence, you should have said you don't need evidence to prove theirs wrong and you've shown that by them not being able to defend your attack.

Originally posted by Victor Galis
-Or you could know everything like you're supposed to. I didn't get a 5 knowing only selective pieces of info.

You may get some anal reader for your essay. It is good to be highly knowledgable like in knowing minor dates and names.

[Ramo]

You can use the same argument for saying the SAT is cirriculum based.

The SAT predicts college performance. It isn't necessarily curriculum based. GP just posted a bunch of links showing that.

You still haven't answered my question if you actually think that a major change in the SAT (such as adding calculus) wouldn't cause a major change in the curriculums.

This isn't entirely correct. People who take really easy courses are looked down upon.

Not that much. Also, many states give automatic admission in state schools to people with high GPA's (Texas, for instance, gives the top 10% of the class automatic admission).

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Ramo
I'm not saying that absolutely everyone should take calculus. But everyone should have the opportunity to do so. And standards should increase from the sorry state they currently are at.

Putting calculus on the test would be a pressure, nothing more.

By saying absolutely everyone you are acting like even 1/3 need calculus. This is crazy. Math is not important for many people. Hell, West Point suggests you DO NOT take AP Calculus unless you are very smart in mathematics.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
-Maybe, but taking 10 APs and German 5, and Multivariable certainly didn't do me very much good as far as getting into college was concerned... but hey, at least I started out as a sophomore

That is because of what GP stated. You didn't show you had leadership skills because you didn't do many activities. This is rightly so because you apparently have bad social skills since you choose to do homework over talk with friends.

[Ramo]

Everyone should have the opportunity to take AP calculus. People in the school I went to freshman year didn't for instance.

And math sharpens the mind, preparing people for other fields, even if one doesn't use it in their own.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Ramo
The SAT predicts college performance. It isn't necessarily curriculum based. GP just posted a bunch of links showing that.

It is based more on cirriculum than the other way around

Originally posted by Ramo
You still haven't answered my question if you actually think that a major change in the SAT (such as adding calculus) wouldn't cause a major change in the curriculums.

Of course if would changes things, but it would not happen. You argument makes no sense.

Originally posted by Ramo
Not that much. Also, many states give automatic admission in state schools to people with high GPA's (Texas, for instance, gives the top 10% of the class automatic admission).

Many schools in Texas also change GPA's based on classes to get around that.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Ramo
Everyone should have the opportunity to take AP calculus. People in the school I went to freshman year didn't for instance.

And math sharpens the mind, preparing people for other fields, even if one doesn't use it in their own.

Everyone should be able to take calculus. Some schools just lack the resources for this though. If education and child care was completely nationalized, this would be fixed. Changing the SAT wouldn't fix it though.

[Victor Galis]

You are being silly. Walk between the trees.

-Yes, I just don't like turning an 8 mile walk started at 4:30pm into an 8 mile hike, because there is no way I would make it home before dark most days then. And on the days when I could make it home before dark, it would be too hot to walk. If I made it home at 8:30pm, my life would have sucked royally. In high school I went to bed at 10:30-11:00 at the latest.

There must have been LD done at the tournaments.

-Most tournaments clashed with scholar's bowl and math tournaments. Besides, at my school we reffered to LD as Loser Debate.

If they counter by saying you lack evidence, you should have said you don't need evidence to prove theirs wrong and you've shown that by them not being able to defend your attack.

-Maybe, but the way I have been taught debate was way too card intensive for my tastes. Maybe it's because the people who taught me sucked, but that's not exactly my fault, now is it?

You may get some anal reader for your essay. It is good to be highly knowledgable like in knowing minor dates and names.

-You clearly don't know me Of course, I don't remember any of that stuff now, but then...

By saying absolutely everyone you are acting like even 1/3 need calculus. This is crazy. Math is not important for many people. Hell, West Point suggests you DO NOT take AP Calculus unless you are very smart in mathematics.

-Shows you how much West Point knows The problem with calculus is not that people can't understand it, it's that most schools do a **** job of teaching all the stuff that leads up to it.

[Ramo]

It is based more on cirriculum than the other way around

It's not based on curriculum. It's based on predicting college performance.

Of course if would changes things, but it would not happen.

Again, that isn't necessarily true with major government pressure.

You argument makes no sense.

Why?
You just admitted my entire point. Changing the SAT would create a pressure for change in schools.

Many schools in Texas also change GPA's based on classes to get around that.

Besides with honors and AP classes, how?

[Victor Galis]

This is rightly so because you apparently have bad social skills since you choose to do homework over talk with friends.

-Yes, I have bad social skills because I chose not to disturb class

[Ramo]

Some schools just lack the resources for this though.

Not at all. It doesn't take extra resources to get teachers to accelerate high school math.