Apple Marketing

[Pythagoras]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by reds4ever

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Wiglaf [/SIZE

If it's a hardware problem, it's not my fault. It's a top of the line Dell video card in there, COMRADES.
[/QUOTE

Is that a Dell geforce 4?

In his defence, manufacturers of laptops do (and probably have to) screw with the video cards. I know for ATI mobility, you have to get drivers from the computer manufacturer, not the video card monufacturer. I guess lack of modularity is a downside.


[jk]
I built my computer, man those resistors, capaciters and all that silicon are expensive!

[klesh]

You need to be Mac savy to work in a music studio. Macs are the industry standard there.

-FMK.

[Q Classic]

sick and tired of this stuff.

macs are spectacular for graphics applications, for sound applications, and for certain types of programming/science applications. this is, however, for industries; and thus, such advertisements that one sees on the telly are worthless.
now, for personal use, macs are not evil, as some wintel people would have you believe; macs are good if you want ease of use, simplicity and elegance in design (not having to mess with command lines if you don't want to, easy to install and uninstall), or if you want an os that honest that is both stylish and easily comprehendable.
this comes with a heavy price, however. apple strangles innovation in some ways, because it is apple, and only apple, that does the hardware; apple creates things for its computers, and apple then licenses it out to other companies. this, naturally, leads to a higher hardware premium; both for up front purchases and for upgrades (for applicable systems) later on.
furthermore, apple apparently is actively seeking a specific market segment; that of computer newbies, and those who don't use computers frequently out of personal preference. this is why you have those infernal imacs (god, the new ones are so finkin' UGLY!). the imacs are designed for people who have no wish to upgrade (poor fools), and a desire to have a computing device that doesn't push the envelope in performace while being reasonably priced, rather stable and capable enough to do most average tasks.
i'm not against apple; if given enough choice, i'd purchase a ibook or a tower with dual g4s to run alongside my wintel/linux machine. apple just is a different kind of computer, for a different kind of person.

wintel pcs, are also not evil; winxp, winnt, win9x, and win2k, while they all have their issues, are not horrid. (this, unfortunately, cannot be said about winme, which actually does suck.) user-friendliness has gone up remarkably in the past few iterations of windows; winxp is, of course, the pinnacle of such user-friendliness, the best we've ever seen out of redmond. that's still not saying too much, however, because there are many things about windows pcs that can be confusing to a newcomer; such as installing and uninstalling programs, keyboard commands, and program instabilities. overall, however, because windows is the standard throughout most of the world, using it should not be that big of a problem for most people; indeed, the learning curve is not as deep as mac lovers would have you believe.
furthermore, mac lovers will say that their macs are far more stable than their windows counterparts. this is true. but for a different reason; it is not entirely because windows coding sucks; while windows coding leaves much to be desired, wintel computers have hardware that is not built and designed by one company; you have a multitude of companies, most of which are good about complying to standards, but a bunch more which are not. and this is where the trouble comes in; bad driver programming, shoddy hardware design, and all of that contribute to the higher rate of bluescreen deaths of wintel computing sessions and program instabilities.

linux is right out in this kind of discussion. linux can run on both powerpc driven computers and x86 computers; but the average home user probably won't bother with it, because of a steep learning curve, specifically in terms of installation of programs and what not (rpms are a step in the right direction for ease of use, but compiling source to use is beyond the scope of most users), and lack of widespread consumer support hinders linux's ability to have drivers for most products.

so here's what i'm trying to say.
macs are not better than pcs. pcs are not better than macs. they're different computers, for different people.

now that that's out of the way, i have to say:
asher, you're getting your knickers tied up over an advertisement. advertisements are meant to be misleading; their sole purpose is to create demand where there is none, and to create difference between identical products.
the demand for apple computers is stable; their ads luring wintel users to switch is a means to create such a demand, so they can have better product growth, and to get rid of their inventories filled with the ugly dome imacs. (i have nothing against the flat panel part. i have everything against the way the bottom of it looks.)
it's just too bad that some companies prefer to be a bit more honorable with their advertisements than others. apple's worse than most; but then, microsoft isn't too much better. and intel? amd should really try to advertise more, right now their technology is comparable, and in some areas, better, than intel's.

[Gatekeeper]

Q Cubed:

Thank you for putting into words how I genuinely view the whole Apple vs. PC debate. Do you happen to be a writer, hmm?

Gatekeeper

[Asher]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
sick and tired of this stuff.

macs are spectacular for graphics applications, for sound applications, and for certain types of programming/science applications.

And the only reason whatsoever that they have this market is they continually lock in the products and people in the industry are used to using it. There's nothing actually superior about the system, just that industry is used to it.

macs are good if you want ease of use, simplicity and elegance in design (not having to mess with command lines if you don't want to, easy to install and uninstall), or if you want an os that honest that is both stylish and easily comprehendable.

This is largely a false argument, as I see it. There's nothing elegant in Aqua. It's flashy, at best, and not nearly as functional as the OS9 interface was. Having the standard toolbar always be at the top rather than attached to the window it controls is confusing, and annoying.

I also don't even see how someone can talk about "easy to install and uninstall". It simply cannot be made any simpler. You run the installer, click next a few times after you tell it where to put it, and it's done. To uninstall, go to Add/Remove Programs, click the program's name, click 'Remove'.

[Skanky Burns]

To uninstall, go to Add/Remove Programs, click the program's name, click 'Remove'.

And then manually delete all the shortcuts, save files and directories the badly written uninstall programs leave behind.

[Asher]

The last time I uninstalled something, it was Mozilla, and the Add/Remove Programs thingie removed the shortcuts and directories on its own...

[Pythagoras]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns

To uninstall, go to Add/Remove Programs, click the program's name, click 'Remove'.

And then manually delete all the shortcuts, save files and directories the badly written uninstall programs leave behind.

I like how it leaves saves behind, so when I reinstall I can play old games.

[Q Classic]

And the only reason whatsoever that they have this market is they continually lock in the products and people in the industry are used to using it. There's nothing actually superior about the system, just that industry is used to it.

while this might be true, macs ARE the industry standard, and the products ARE optimized most often for macs... besides, adobe is one of the leaders in the graphics field... the simple fact that they do all of their design on macs hints that maybe there is something more to it.

This is largely a false argument, as I see it. There's nothing elegant in Aqua. It's flashy, at best, and not nearly as functional as the OS9 interface was. Having the standard toolbar always be at the top rather than attached to the window it controls is confusing, and annoying.

aqua i'm not so fond of. it uses more system resources than it should for an os ('course, winxp does the same when you have the new 3d start bar and what not...). and although osX is cool, i don't think i'd really want it; os9, imho, was better. ah, well.

I also don't even see how someone can talk about "easy to install and uninstall". It simply cannot be made any simpler. You run the installer, click next a few times after you tell it where to put it, and it's done. To uninstall, go to Add/Remove Programs, click the program's name, click 'Remove'.

yes, which is why i continually have to go back and tell not so well computer-versed people that just deleting the shortcut will not delete the program... yes, it's easy; but just because it's easy does not mean the vast majority of people will all know that's how to do it. i will say, though, most games and certain programs these days are getting better at showing how to uninstall programs, even if it is by placing it right under their nose in the form of a shortcut as "Uninstall _____"
still, they're not perfect.
with most mac programs, just erasing the stupid folder does the trick.

look. i'm not anti-pc, nor am i pro-mac. i'm just saying, i honestly think that the entire debate is utterly pointless. they're different kinds of computers, for different kinds of people. i don't see why one has to be worse than others.

and asher, i'm not disagreeing with you; mac ads can be pretty misleading. i was mainly just trying to answer all those other people proclaiming which one was better or not.

crikeys, it's almost as bad as getting caught between KDE and Gnome debates (i prefer KDE), or emacs and vi (undecided yet, but pico's nice (also does a lot less)).

and gatekeeper: i'm kinda wanting to be a writer, but i also kinda want to pay bills, so i'm kinda putting those career plans on hold.

[monolith94]

I love how Asher highlights the stories (which are all entirely real: because it's real people talking about their experiences I don't see how they can be misleading), but leaves out the hard-core techies who buy Apple and love it. For example:


"The most amazing computer I’ve ever used

I’m a computer science major at Rutgers University. I have 6 years experience programming in languages like C++, Perl, Java, and BASIC. When I started school I wanted a laptop I could bring around campus and bring home and do my work anywhere I wanted. Windows laptops were far overpriced in terms of what you got. I wanted a computer that could compile fast, but also play the occasional game and act as a portable jukebox as well.
As I was doing my research on which laptop to buy, I stumbled across the PowerBook G4. I fell in love. The wide screen (great for playing DVDs in a dorm room), the speed of the G4 processor, the quality that is inherent with a Apple computer. As I started to see people using PowerBooks at BSD conventions, Unix user groups, and mentions of IT professionals using the PowerBook G4, I decided to take a road trip to the Apple store in NJ.
After seeing how light it was and just seeing how well built it was, I had to have one. I bought one right there, and after my first year with it, I can honestly say, it’s the most amazing computer I’ve ever used. I can do anything with it. Apple and their amazing products, and truly amazing OS X, have helped me raise my programming from work to an artform.
— AJF "

"Having the standard toolbar always be at the top rather than attached to the window it controls is confusing, and annoying"

I like it. It's a matter of personal preference.

[Asher]

How can the guy have 6 years programming experience in Java? Java's newer than that.

[monolith94]

No, but C++ and basic are 6 years old. Troll level = .1/10
That was just a really dumb statement and blatantly taking words out of context.

[Asher]

It is a really dumb statement. Why does Apple insist on using it?

I could easily write the exact same stuff, without lying, trashing Apple.

Perhaps Dell should hire me.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Asher
Perhaps Dell should hire me.

Can you look vapid and say, "Dude, You're gettin' a Dell!"?

[Q Classic]

good god. this is still going on, isn't it?

let's not drag in other pc manufacturers. dell is not the great satan of the pc world; while they are not known for innovation, they are known for admirable tech support, as well as building a computer that is usually quite reliable. that's more than say, gateway, can say these days.
truth be told, if you're going to be a snob about computer companies, and trash talk dell, you might as well put your money where your mouth is and build a more reliable computer yourself, where you know every single card, every single chip, every single wire and every single cooling fan. you can then guarantee that your tech support will be superior, that your workmanship will be superior, that it was custom built to your exact specifications, and that the computing environment is as stable as you like.

and as for that entire apple-wintel thing... just drop it. mac's got a very loyal user base, asher, you're not going to change people's minds about it. especially not this way.

and that ajf guy that apple trumpets? i dunno, but i have to say, for programming things, i still like linux better.