Should Canada adopt a US-style senate

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Are you? If 90% of Canada thinks energy policy should be run a certain way and Alberta disagrees wih it, then you'll have to do some fast talking and interpret the idea of democracy pretty loosely if you think that this should be enough to stop it from going through.

That isn't so much a problem anymore, because the next time it happens Alberta is gone.

[markusf]

Originally posted by Asher

This is outrageous, a Senate wouldn't allow for that and you know it.

your living in a fantasy world. If the house has 80% liberals the senate would most likely have 80% liberals. And all those liberals would fall into party line and say what they are told, and vote the way they are told.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher

That isn't so much a problem anymore, because the next time it happens Alberta is gone.

Sure, sweetie. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by markusf
your living in a fantasy world. If the house has 80% liberals the senate would most likely have 80% liberals. And all those liberals would fall into party line and say what they are told, and vote the way they are told.

How do you figure? The house would have more NDP + CA seats than Liberal...

You realize most of the Liberal votes come from only two provinces, right?

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Sure, sweetie. I'll believe it when I see it.

You will indeed.

Most of Alberta is semi-content with Canada as a whole right now. But the polls in earlier threads clearly indicated a huge chunk of Alberta would like to secede unless major reforms are made in the government within 10 years. Remember that?

If there's another NEP, it will trigger an immediate secession. It's obvious.

[Ramo]

They demonstrate how the lack of a regional-based counterbalance can lead to the interests of the majority at the expense of a minority.

Why should regional minorities have more of a say than any other sort of minorities, such as political minorities?

[blackice]

sure

[markusf]

Originally posted by Asher

How do you figure? The house would have more NDP + CA seats than Liberal...

You realize most of the Liberal votes come from only two provinces, right?

Any senate would be based on representation by population. So what you have in the house is what your going to have in the senate.

[Ramo]

Look Asher, if you're worried about the central government imposing laws on territories that don't want 'em, why not support a Constitutional amendment that guarantees, for instance, law nullification given some sort of majority consent in the province. A US-style Senate is not designed to accomplish what you want it to.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ramo


Why should regional minorities have more of a say than any other sort of minorities, such as political minorities?

Not just that: why should it only be provincial minorities?

I live in an English enclave of a French sea. There are discriminatory laws on the provincial books. Where's my special consideration?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ramo
Why should regional minorities have more of a say than any other sort of minorities, such as political minorities?

They only have more of a say in 1/3 of the branches, and in the branch that can only shoot down bills.

And in this case, Ramo, regional minorities tend to be political minorities. Look up Canadian election results, you'll see some distinct trends...

[Asher]

Originally posted by markusf
Any senate would be based on representation by population. So what you have in the house is what your going to have in the senate.

For **** sake, you're not even reading this thread!

US-style senate, moron.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ramo
Look Asher, if you're worried about the central government imposing laws on territories that don't want 'em, why not support a Constitutional amendment that guarantees, for instance, law nullification given some sort of majority consent in the province. A US-style Senate is not designed to accomplish what you want it to.

Because it's impossible to pass such a thing in Canada's current setup?

Again, the Liberals have full and complete control in Canada. They would NOT like anything which means they can't have their way with all provinces.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher
Most of Alberta is semi-content with Canada as a whole right now. But the polls in earlier threads clearly indicated a huge chunk of Alberta would like to secede unless major reforms are made in the government within 10 years. Remember that?

Exactly. "If you don't do what we say, we'll take our ball and go home". It's the same two-year old mentality that Quebec's had for the last 30 years, not an indication of serious intent.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
I said the Senate would give the Liberals a minority in the Senate, I've said nothing specifically about getting Alberta more power.

Asher: you really should learn a bit more about Canadian politics before you go on yet another of your rants.

A US-style system would not guarantee that the Liberals would be in a minority. Given the incompetence of the right wing and the voting habits of Canadians you would likely end up with senate election results as follows:

NFLD: Liberal (all of these indicate the party holding majority of seats)
N.S.: Liberal
N.B.: Liberal
PEI: Liberal
Quebec: probably 50-50 split lib and BQ
Ontario: Liberal
Manitoba: Split Liberal/NDP/CA
Sask: Split NDP/CA
Alberta: CA
BC: Split NDP/CA

So with five provinces going Liberal, there is a likelihood that power would still be held by one party. If a right-wing government is formed, it is highly likely that they would be blocked by a US-style senate.

Originally posted by Asher
I don't care for the reasoning behind WHY the majority exists.

Well then you're being completely stupid. If you don't know why the "problem" is being created then you won't be able to find a solution.

Originally posted by Asher
All I know, and have been talking about, is that the majority government has unlimited power in Canada. And that's outrageous.

There is nothign outrageous about democracy. It has its flaws, but it is better than the alternatives. If the government makes bad decisions then the voters are the ones to blame (although the voters always whine and say "it wasn't my fault.")

Originally posted by Asher
You can't blame unless you vote for parties only?

You want to try to explain your incomprehensible statement?

Originally posted by Asher
Strangely the US has more productive stuff going on than Canada.

You mean like massive farm subsidies that pay people not to work. Or how about the massive amounts of corporate welfare. Or how about the rigging of the electoral system.

The Canadian system is not perfect, but neither is the American system.

Originally posted by Asher
"Too much power" is relative. If you're in the majority, then it's too much. If you're in the minority, it's not enough. Strike a balance.

What you are proposing puts the minority in power.

If you want to change Canadian federal policies now, it is easy. Go out and convince the people that you are right.

Originally posted by Asher
Why should your opinion be forced on mine? Because you outnumber me?

That sounds a lot better than having a fringe minority forcing their opinion upon the vast majority.