Should Canada adopt a US-style senate

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Stefu
red_jon, I was just about to edit my message to say "Oh well, there's going to be some Brit posting something like "What's wrong with that?" here soon, thinking he's so funny."

Well you can't have these nasty Finns buggering up the system can you? We might as well let the Russian commies in if that were to happen!

[*End Is Forever*]

Asher,

Right now, in Canada, all government power effectively comes down to the majority party. Everyone else becomes moot. The majority party appoints the PM. They now control the "executive branch" as well as the only really functionaly legislative branch. The PM then appoints Senators (although the current Senate has basically zero power). Every time. This gives them an effective dictatorship. King Jean can pass a law, say, stripping all resource revenues from a province in order to make the rest of the country richer, even though a 1930 agreement stated it was owned by that province.

Yes, and this is what happens in every country where you've got a small minority that go strongly "against the grain", as it were. You think the middle-classes in Britain were happy when strongly socialist Labour governments were elected in the 1970s?

Your differences with the system appear to be fundamental. A "senate" or whatever you want to call it, isn't going to make any difference. The only way you're going to get what you want is either by strong devolution, so that, say, resource decisions are unquestionably made on a provincial level, or failing that, independence.

[*End Is Forever*]

For the record, it's precisely this sort of situation that makes me instinctly wary of increased qualified-majority voting, or federalism, in the European Union. Britain might be the second biggest economy in the EU, but it can be consistently outvoted by those with stronger shared interests - could Britain become the "Alberta" of the European Union?

[Asher]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
Yes, and this is what happens in every country where you've got a small minority that go strongly "against the grain", as it were. You think the middle-classes in Britain were happy when strongly socialist Labour governments were elected in the 1970s?

Your differences with the system appear to be fundamental. A "senate" or whatever you want to call it, isn't going to make any difference. The only way you're going to get what you want is either by strong devolution, so that, say, resource decisions are unquestionably made on a provincial level, or failing that, independence.

A US-style senate wouldn't totally fix the problem, but would be one way to improve the system for the simple reasons that the Liberals would not have a complete majority any more. They cannot pass any bill they ever choose to, regardless what 60% of the actual voters think.

With this system the Liberals will have a minority government in one of the three main branches of government, which would help balance the government far better. It would certainly stop some incredibly stupid and self-serving laws from being passed.

And it would help prevent stalling of drawing of the new ridings. The government keeps stalling in drawing new ridings in Alberta. We've grown so fast and we haven't been given any new represenatives in a while. There's supposed to be 75,000 people per elected official, and there are ridings in Alberta with 115,000 people per elected official. Those ridings need to be redrawn NOW, and we need to be given the representation we're supposed to get. The liberals keep stalling it so that there's less right wing seats in the government. They can get away with this since they've got complete control over the federal government.

[Boris Godunov]

I wouldn't wish the U.S. Senate on anybody, so no.

Do you really want a body that is home to the likes of Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond, Trent Lott, Phil Gramm, Bob Torecelli et al? Is that the kind of system you think would be best for Canada? Good lord, no.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Do you really want a body that is home to the likes of Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond, Trent Lott, Phil Gramm, Bob Torecelli et al? Is that the kind of system you think would be best for Canada? Good lord, no

I do. I think the US-style Senate is an idea that the European Union needs for one. And definetly Canada. It was perhaps one of the smarter ideas of the founders of the US.

[Akka]

Originally posted by red_jon


BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Is there something wrong with that? We are your masters after all! Long live the Franco-Anglo-Germanic alliance!

No. We were talking about the Franco-Germano-Italian alliance.
You UK stay aside and look

[Boris Godunov]

Wouldn't it be ironic to see the French, English and Germans ally and be at war together against the rest of Europe? Three of history's most contentious antagonists united...oh how times have changed!

[Asher]

The people voting "No" to a US-style senate if you don't live in Canada or know anything about the Canadian government should stay out.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Asher
The people voting "No" to a US-style senate if you don't live in Canada or know anything about the Canadian government should stay out.

BS. Americans who know enough about the U.S. Senate have just as much authority, if not more so, to say "DON'T DO IT!!!"

I know jack squat about Canadian government, but if it's in need of reform, you can come up with something better, please. PLEASE.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
BS. Americans who know enough about the U.S. Senate have just as much authority, if not more so, to say "DON'T DO IT!!!"

No, not BS, you don't know anything about Canadian politics, so stay the hell out of Canadian politics. Capiche?

Besides, your entire arguments are based on the types of people senators are in the US. What are you, stupid? Go away.

[Boris Godunov]

Me speak slowly for you to comprehend:

You...no...have...Senate.

We...have...Senate.

Ergo...we...have...more...expertise...than...you.. .in...regards...to...Senate.

There's no reason to believe you won't get the same kind of Senators, as it is the system that draws the types, and presuming the system were the same, you'd draw the same types. People are people.

And I'd have to counter that anyone who advocates adopting a U.S.-style senate is the real stupid one, so nyah nyah.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Me speak slowly for you to comprehend:

You...no...have...Senate.

We...have...Senate.

Ergo...we...have...more...expertise...than...you.. .in...regards...to...Senate.

Okay, few things Boris:
I'm a dual citizen. I have also lived in both countries. Therefore I'm much more apt to make this distinction than you are, seeing as I've got an understanding of BOTH political systems.

Okay? Thank you.

There's no reason to believe you won't get the same kind of Senators, as it is the system that draws the types, and presuming the system were the same, you'd draw the same types. People are people.

Yeah, the ones we have in Canada are so much better. They're all like 70 years old and they live in MEXICO, and attend maybe like 5-6 senate seatings per term. That's SO MUCH BETTER than Jesse Helms or Hilary Clinton, isn't it? Jackass. Go away, you aren't even debating the topic!

And I'd have to counter that anyone who advocates adopting a U.S.-style senate is the real stupid one, so nyah nyah.

The stupid people are the ones who have no idea what its purpose is, or why a country like Canada needs it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ergo...we...have...more...expertise...than...you.. .in...regards...to...Senate.

There's no reason to believe you won't get the same kind of Senators, as it is the system that draws the types, and presuming the system were the same, you'd draw the same types. People are people.

Yes, and our Senate is GOOD. G-O-O-D!

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Asher

Okay, few things Boris:
I'm a dual citizen. I have also lived in both countries. Therefore I'm much more apt to make this distinction than you are, seeing as I've got an understanding of BOTH political systems.

Okay? Thank you.

OoooooooooooooooooOOOOOoooooh! Isn't that special?

Yeah, the ones we have in Canada are so much better. They're all like 70 years old and they live in MEXICO, and attend maybe like 5-6 senate seatings per term. That's SO MUCH BETTER than Jesse Ventura or Hilary Clinton, isn't it? Jackass. Go away, you aren't even debating the topic!

Jesse Ventura isn't a Senator, "jackass." Shows how much you know about the American system. Your arguments are null and void!

The stupid people are the ones who have no idea what its purpose is, or why a country like Canada needs it.

No, YOU'RE the stupid one, Mr. Poopypants.