Jewish Federation finds Palestinian flag offensive

[Sirotnikov]

Well that is pretty stupid then.

And anyway, it's not apartheid but rather a half occupied territory. And it's not ethnic cleansing but rather small scale war.

It appeasr that you have forgotten that real wars exist. But it's so fashionable to use these new cool words.

[axi]

There is a difference between government officials of the executive branch , and congressmen and senators which are elected and have a certain immunity. The first are workers of the government , and therefor supposedly shouldn't say anything other than the government position. The second are elected and therefor have the right to say many things that "simple" citizens can't. That's at least the way in our country. Sadly they all talk too much around here .

A nice democracy you have down there, Dal... Congratulations.

This reminds me of 3 German parliamentaries who unfolded a banner which said "stop your wars" during G.W. Bush's visit to the German parliament. The leader of their party was compelled to apologise for this to Bush.

This also reminds me of the lawsuit a Swiss zionist group, "Aktion Kinder des Holokaust", made against swiss indymedia because they permitted the display in one of their pages of a cartoon by Latuff depicting a WW2 jewish ghetto child saying: "I am a Palestinian".

Zionazis, or Zionuts? What do you think?

[Sirotnikov]

I think you are babelling.

[KrazyHorse]

It seems to be contagious.

[Sirotnikov]

In any case - axi - democracy doesn't mean Chaos.

If there's a government policy - you should stick to it. When you represnt the country you are not a private person, you have responsability.

Just like DanQ or MarkG or Ming can't exactly speak their mind on whatever they think, but have to speak as officials.

[Tom201]

It is not against government policy to stick pal flags on your houses

[Sikander]

From a legal perspective I would think that if the building is owned or rented by the government then they have a right to make rules regarding what sorts of symbols are allowed to be connected with them via display on their building. If not, then it's none of their business. On the other hand many high level government officials (at least here) serve at the pleasure of the president, and could legally be ordered to desist or find another job.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Just like DanQ or MarkG or Ming can't exactly speak their mind on whatever they think, but have to speak as officials.

Um... bad example . Mark frequently speaks his mind on what he thinks.

I think it is telling how the pro-Israeli crowd wants to stifle free speech under the guise that officials shouldn't critisize government policy .

Sikander, it was on his house, which I guess would make it none of the government's business.

[S. Kroeze]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
And anyway, it's not apartheid but rather a half occupied territory. And it's not ethnic cleansing but rather small scale war.

It appeasr that you have forgotten that real wars exist. But it's so fashionable to use these new cool words.

'Ethnic cleansing' and warfare are like brother and sister. It was practiced large-scale in Bosnia and in Israel in 1948 and afterwards. I guess even you will not deny plain facts!

About 'apartheid': I have good reasons to believe that Israel has three castes: Ashkenazim, Sephardim and Arab Israelis.

Nor do I have any hope that war will ever end.
What a pity the Zionists brushed aside the opinion of those Orthodox Jews actually living in Palestine: they were all opposed to Zionism because it would disturb their relations with Moslems and Christians!

[axi]

Just like DanQ or MarkG or Ming can't exactly speak their mind on whatever they think, but have to speak as officials.

Officials are people who have been assigned an office by a community. Dan and Mark just own the damn place and Ming was chosen by them. They are more like King Marcos and Prince Daniel of Apolytonia, with their champion Lord Ming, than servants of the Apolyton people. So this is a bad analogy.

You peole don't seem to understand anything about semantics. An official can say entirely different things as an official and as a person, he just has to make clear to the world under which identity he is speaking each time. Which is absolutely clear in this case, even if we disregard that it was the wife of the man who actually did the "thing".

[Sirotnikov]

Sikander, it was on his house, which I guess would make it none of the government's business.

So you wouldn't mind if Bush put a dozen of Israeli flags in his ranch in texas, so that they will be easily seen?

It was practiced large-scale in Bosnia and in Israel in 1948 and afterwards. I guess even you will not deny plain facts!

Plain what?

There was no ethnic cleansing in Israel in 1948. There was indeed an end result of many displaced people and refugees, but it wasn't a policy.

There was war, and many populations were 'encouraged' to leave, both on the Jewish and Arab side. A huge number left in 1947, before the war reached a big scale, because they expected it.

About apartheid - no Israel does not have three castes, and it doesn't have two either.

You wouldn't find a difference between Arabs and Jews living in big cities.

The main problem is the backwards villages, which were poorly looked after, but it isn't the government's sole blame, because the arabs are still very conservative and had a tough time leaving the tribal and communal communities in which they lived.

For instance, they refused to accept plans for proper building of villages, allowing wider roads and better appearance, because they insisted on thier tribal village structure and style of building.

Also, most build their own homes privately and illegally, so the state doesn't always collect tax but then they don't have proper services.

This is changing however, mostly for the better. The problem now, is with Palestinians coming from the territories and settling in Israel as Israeli-Arabs, who keep reenforcing the circles supporting illegal construction.

And as far as 95% of the differences between Ashkenazim, Sepharadim and Arabs, it's mostly due to differences in culture, education and social level.

It would be absurd to call USA an apartheid, just because it has many poor minority groups which live in "ghettos", be they black, hispanic or hillbilly.

As far as the Orthodox Jews - most are indeed Zionistic to one level or another.

The problem is that you are basing your view on propoganda by small minority groups.

And their real reason for opposing Zionism was because they believe it prevents the arrival of the messiah, not some pretty "we want to be nice to our neighbours" story.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you wouldn't mind if Bush put a dozen of Israeli flags in his ranch in texas, so that they will be easily seen?

No, that's his own damned business.

Hell, we've elected Congressmen and Senators who have worn Israeli pins! Do you think they should have been fired?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by axi
You peole don't seem to understand anything about semantics. An official can say entirely different things as an official and as a person, he just has to make clear to the world under which identity he is speaking each time. Which is absolutely clear in this case, even if we disregard that it was the wife of the man who actually did the "thing".

While in office, an official shouldn't make his personal opinions and biases public.

I'm sure that the french embassador was talking as a private person when he reffered to Israel as a "****ty little country" but he still isn't supposed to do that, while he's an embassador.

Just because you are free to say what ever you want, doesn't mean that it's wise or advisable that you do.

[Imran Siddiqui]

While in office, an official shouldn't make his personal opinions and biases public.

Like I said, nice to know free speech is alive in Israel .

Why don't you just go all the way and turn into a fascist state. We all know you are just about halfway there.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

It was practiced large-scale in Bosnia and in Israel in 1948 and afterwards. I guess even you will not deny plain facts!

Plain what?

There was no ethnic cleansing in Israel in 1948. There was indeed an end result of many displaced people and refugees, but it wasn't a policy.

Maybe he meant when the Arabs tried to clense Jews from Palastine.