Someone requested evidence of PA involvement in terror?

[CyberGnu]

siro, regarding the BBC, you really don't see the difference between having a code that says that the radio station should not take sides, and having a code that forces the station to be partial even in the language it uses?

[CyberGnu]

BTW, there is another thread waiting for an answer:

http://64.246.32.51/~admin1/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=950873#post950873

[Sirotnikov]

Cyber - when and where did the IDF admit to using torture?

In any case, the IDF isn't responsible for questioning captured prisoners, but GSS is. And GSS hasn't used torture for years now.

It's all psychology.

How is not calling an enemy side "victims" partial? When the BBC calls IRA "freedom fighters" I will try to change the IBA law.

Anyway it's just the code for the news blurb. The Israeli news (in hebrew at least) are free to use what ever language they want.

So are the interviewees - lefties, arabs, palestinians and so on.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Now you're just being rude.

Come on KH. Since when does that mean anything in the OT anymore? The whole place has taken on a distictive uncivil tone in just about every thread. There couldn't even be a simple thread about Star Wars and Spiderman without some people being rude. Don't single Siro out as being rude when just about every person in this thread consistently proves what an ass they are.

[morb]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Siro, that you accept anything as proof from an agency that admits to using torture is just sad.

Tell me, do they still burn witches where you come from?

wait, as opposed to you accepting anything from an agency that harbors and employs terrorism? which is sadder?

as far as witches, when was the last time you've heard of women having rights in arab/muslim states? They seem to have them in Israel though, how interesting.

[Tau Ceti]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
I didn't suggest the aforementioned links as the source of "ultimate truth".

I said that it's a piece of the puzzle.

Well, your choice of thread title suggests otherwise and I did not see you add any qualifiers, but if you only wanted to post this as a possible viewpoint then fair enough. You will have to forgive me for being a cynic and not accepting it all at face value, though.

The information flow is strictly controlled in totalitarian countries.

Israel is a democracy.

I was primarily talking about military and intelligence matters. Even in the most liberal democracy, these are not issues where there is free access to information. There are good and legitimate reasons for that and it is not particularly worth criticizing; however, it means that any information coming from official sources should be taken with a very big pinch of salt.

First, the article you brought, is exactly the reason why I am sure that my source for news is trustworthy and as impartial as can be for a side in the conflict.

How so? If the article is to be believed, many journalists have the army - a direct party to the conflict - as their main or sole source, and implies that many are more or less openly throwing pretenses of objectivity out the window. That is hardly trust-inducing if you ask me...

Second, the article you brought is more than a month old. I know this, because I read it. Unlike some people, I do not choose to ignore people's opinions just because I disagree with it.

Not sure what you are getting at here... What has changed in the last month? And whose opinions am I ignoring? Have I even said I disagree with something here?

Third, the second article you brought is about the state owned radio. It's state run, and therefore has to be completely PC and pro-state. It's part of the IBA - Israeli Broadcasting Authority which is governed by the state.

I would argue that that is certainly no necessity, and that it reflects rather poorly on the Israeli government to do it. This is nothing more than propaganda.

Obviously an educated person would notice that and deal with it accordingly, adjusting himself.

Certainly. Is that supposed to be an excuse, though? There is obviously an agenda they are trying to push...

While the arabic and english bits only contain a brief of the news, which is quite PC and pro-israeli, while the serious news programs and magazines, are far from being PC.

I will take your word for it. Anyway, I am not suggesting that Israel is a dictatorship that goes around censoring every newspaper article and every radio sound clip; just that the nature of the sources being used and the smaller likelihood of the reporters being able to detach themselves from the events at hand in general will tend to reduce their credibility. International news agencies should suffer less from this...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Sprayber


Come on KH. Since when does that mean anything in the OT anymore? The whole place has taken on a distictive uncivil tone in just about every thread. There couldn't even be a simple thread about Star Wars and Spiderman without some people being rude. Don't single Siro out as being rude when just about every person in this thread consistently proves what an ass they are.

He calle his opponents "idiots" on the third or fourth post in the thread. I usually expect more from him.

[KrazyHorse]

I've been caught a few times being rude myself, and I was glad for the opportunity to apologise, especially when the people I'd attacked didn't really deserve it...

[morb]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I've been caught a few times being rude myself, and I was glad for the opportunity to apologise, especially when the people I'd attacked didn't really deserve it...

lets see how you act when a horde converges on you. maybe he was rude, but you guys deserved it.

[CyberGnu]

Siro, the Israeli court had to order the IDF to stop using torture only a few years ago. Since then the IDF has claimed that it stopped using 'overt torture', but it still uses methods like sleep deprivation, starvation, mental torture.

If you are really curious, read ANY human rights report.

And before you lash out about how nasty the palestinians are or how that eskimos sometimes beat their dogs or why we should give back all land to the native americans, this thread is ONLY about the trustworthyness of a source that uses torture to extract information.


and beside the torture, what would you say to someone who told you 'with one phonecall I can have a helicopter 'mistakenly' kill your whole family. Are you sure you can't invent some terrorist links for us?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by morb

lets see how you act when a horde converges on you. maybe he was rude, but you guys deserved it.

Yes. They converged on him by calling his sources untrustworthy. He must feel tortured.

Oh, and I wasn't even insulted, since my first contribution to this thread came on page two...

[CyberGnu]

wait, as opposed to you accepting anything from an agency that harbors and employs terrorism? which is sadder?

Ah, yes, the infamous New York Times thumbscrews that are issued to all NYT reporters. Or the Washington post water torture, only topped in cruelty by the official CNN termite heap.

Now, since I've realized the incerdiblys tupid people often have problems understanding sarcasm, I'll try to explain to you in simple words:
I don't read arab media.

I know media is a three syllable word, but maybe you can get your parents to explain it to you.


BTW, the witch part, that was sarcasm. I don't expect you to get it...

[morb]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Yes. They converged on him by calling his sources untrustworthy. He must feel tortured.

Oh, and I wasn't even insulted, since my first contribution to this thread came on page two...

i think the point was, that sirotnikov made his post with an air of seriousness. I don' think any of them even read a chunk of it before they simply dismissed it and treated it as more of a joke the more he responded.

but who am I but a casual observer?

[morb]

Originally posted by CyberGnu


Ah, yes, the infamous New York Times thumbscrews that are issued to all NYT reporters. Or the Washington post water torture, only topped in cruelty by the official CNN termite heap.

Now, since I've realized the incerdiblys tupid people often have problems understanding sarcasm, I'll try to explain to you in simple words:
I don't read arab media.

I know media is a three syllable word, but maybe you can get your parents to explain it to you.


BTW, the witch part, that was sarcasm. I don't expect you to get it...

nice...

[KrazyHorse]

A bit of an annoyance, actually...