Someone requested evidence of PA involvement in terror?

[Gibsie]

If we have reason the police have something to gain by conviction of gang members, then you can be sure that we'll reserve some skepticism. If you don't like it, kiss mah chuddies.

[Sirotnikov]

The documents are being translated and released by Israel -- they can make them say what they want.

It's hardly evidence, even if it is true

The documents are being translated by people who know arabic.

The documents in arabic have been scanned and are presented as a JPEG picture next to each article.

According to Marcus USA also faked the video casette showing Osama bin Laden, and obviously also played around with the translation.

Your wish to believe that Osama is not guilty is so great that you choose to ignore what's infront of your nose.

Asher, I didn't expect people to suddenly decide that I'm right. But I expected them to take this at least half seriously. But again, anything which doesn't fall in line with the communist theory and which is not PC (arabs = good peaceful) is a big fat lie.

Paiktis:

If Marcus feels free to protest against my right for self definition and self defense, symbolized by my country, I feel free to protest against his words.

But mainly it is a joke. Notice how I incorporated the big grin smiley to make sure people don't take this seriously.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Well, I´ll be damned. If the IDF says it´s so then it´s gotta be true!! I´m converted! Where can I sign up to get me a gun and go out and kill me some stinkin´arabs?

Your problem is exactly that - you only see the world as stinking arabs / angelic arabs.

And you've already decide they are angelic.

I bet you haven't even looked at the evidence, at the original papers together with translation and so on.

Don't let facts ruin your nice theories

You're bravely following the Soviet ways.

If I smack you over the head with my biased sources you can smack me over the head with your biased sources, m´kay?

[Felch]

The Nuremberg trials were carried out by victors in a total war. Does that mean that the evidence they put forth and the sentences they handed down were invalid?

It's not to compare the PA to the Nazis, it's to point out that you can't disregard evidence just because it's from a biased source. This could well be true.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Gibsie
If we have reason the police have something to gain by conviction of gang members, then you can be sure that we'll reserve some skepticism. If you don't like it, kiss mah chuddies.

The police has something to gain - it saves innocent lives by protecting the lives of citizens.

Ok, you have a right to look at it skeptically. But most of your responses simply ignore anything which is against your current pseudo intellectual geo-political theory.


All those commie trolls are trying to hold on to their "US is source of world evil" theory.

They describe Arafat as a peace loving grandpa.
They describe Sadam as a nobel leader.
They describe bin Laden as a resistance Icon.

Their main problem is that they dislike big systems which they don't unerstand and fear. Therefore everything relating to a state or a governmetn or capitalism is inherently "evil". Just like some people think computers are evil.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
If I smack you over the head with my biased sources you can smack me over the head with your biased sources, m´kay?

You are wrongly giving equivalence to Israeli and Palestinian sources.

Palestinians have already dozens of times claimed dozens of things, starting from Israel killing thousands in Jenin, to Israel using poisonous gas, to Israel using palestinain body parts.

I've seen Arafat himself make all those claims in different interviews on Al-Jazeera.


Israel however, has not once claimed anything which proved to be a lie.

We were right about the weapons ship. We were right about Jenin. We were right about Arafat's funds (as these documents show).


Based on the fact that Palestinian claims were continually proven to be lies, and Israeli claims were proven to be true, I think it's only logical to give Israeli claims more wight than to Palestinian claims.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


You are wrongly giving equivalence to Israeli and Palestinian sources.

Palestinians have already dozens of times claimed dozens of things, starting from Israel killing thousands in Jenin, to Israel using poisonous gas, to Israel using palestinain body parts.

I've seen Arafat himself make all those claims in different interviews on Al-Jazeera.


Israel however, has not once claimed anything which proved to be a lie.

We were right about the weapons ship. We were right about Jenin. We were right about Arafat's funds (as these documents show).


Based on the fact that Palestinian claims were continually proven to be lies, and Israeli claims were proven to be true, I think it's only logical to give Israeli claims more wight than to Palestinian claims.

[Faeelin]

Okay.

So just to make things clear, what WOULD convince you that the PA is involved in terrorism?

[- Groucho -]

Re: Someone requested evidence of PA involvement in terror?

Siro, maybe if the IDF actually had evidence that backed up their allegations people would be more sympathetic. As it is, you've got an IDF claim of "proof beyond doubt" of the PA "masterminding" terror with absolutely no proof of any PA involvement in the planning of a terrorist act. The evidence that they do have does not look good for the PA but the IDF has trumpeted it as being far more damaging than it is. The stuff you've put up in this thread looks more like a teenager's idea of spin doctoring than any kind of persuasive case.

Let's examine what the IDF has got:

The first set of "evidence" shows that a Pal. General attempted to stop the family of a suicide bomber from saying she was associated with Al Aksa.

How is that proof of the Palestinian Authorities involvement in the actual act itself? There is no evidence that they supplied her with the bomb, helped her get into Israeli territory or trained her in any way. All it shows is that their spin doctors wanted to manage the terrorists communications AFTER THE FACT. Which they failed miserably at, by the way.

The second set of "evidence" is even more flimsy. What the IDF shows us is a letter complaining that armed pals were using a school to shoot at Israeli drivers and an official at the school complained to the PA. That's it. Were those armed gunmen sent to the school by the PA? No evidence. Did the PA supply, train or otherwise overtly assist those gunmen? No evidence. Hell, there isn't even any evidence as to whether the PA tried to remove those gunmen (I assume they didn't try, but my point is the IDF didn't show any evidence one way or the other).

None of this is "proof beyond doubt" of "masterminding" anything. Making claims that it is, just makes the IDF look like they think the rest of the world are a bunch of morons. Which kinda pisses off the rest of the world, naturally.

[Kropotkin]

Should we start a betting about how long it will take before Siro gets banned for his picture?

[- Groucho -]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
Should we start a betting about how long it will take before Siro gets banned for his picture?

What's wrong with it? Unless that isn't a butterfly in the background ...

[rah]

One question please, for all of you that are saying this evidence is garbage. (I am also a little suspicious myself)

How many of you think the PA is NOT involved in terrorism in some way. I seriously would like to know what you educated people think deep down. Let's see a show of hands.

Marcus, gibsie, kamrat, etc.

RAH

and please don't argue the def. of terrorism. You know what I'm talking about here. The bombings, etc.

[Kropotkin]

I'd say that I would be suprised if not at least part of the PA was involved in these attacks. That however doesn't mean I'll take information from the IDF as facts without backings from other sources.

[Sava]

You guys need to meet at the handlebars after school and slug it out!

[Gibsie]

Originally posted by rah
One question please, for all of you that are saying this evidence is garbage. (I am also a little suspicious myself)

How many of you think the PA is NOT involved in terrorism in some way. I seriously would like to know what you educated people think deep down. Let's see a show of hands.

Marcus, gibsie, kamrat, etc.

At the very minimum I expect the PA doesn't really object to the terrorist acts (in private). Beyond that, I don'y know... I expect that Sirotnikov could just about convince me with IDF evidence, but not without a great deal of pfffrping first. I think that we've been too hard on him here, and we will again in the future.