Muslims, Intolerance, Portuyn and Liberals

[Solly]

Portuyn had been standing on a similar platform to Le Pen - expel Muslim immigrants - but didn't get the liberal media whipped up into as much of a frenzy as Le Pen did.

Would liberals vote for a policy like Portuyn which seeks to decrease hate and intolerance in a nation...?

[Provost Harrison]

It's Fortuyn.

[Provost Harrison]

Next you'll be calling me Rarrison

[Saint Marcus]

Who the **** is Portuyn?

If you are refering to Fortuyn than: 2/10

Fortuyn: don't expel immigrants living in Holland. only stop admitting new immigrants. Holland should still admit political refugees.

Le Pen: expel immigrants living in France, and stop admitting new immigrants (including political refugees).

Even you must see the difference.

[Buck Birdseed]

Ignoring your racist troll, the Media situation varies immensely from country to country. I know in denmark it's considered entirely wrong to be hostile to far-right candidates, for instance, meaning they impose some sort of bull**** "objectivity" and allow the far-right a voice and a large share of the vote.

[Saint Marcus]

Another note: Dutch liberals are right wing. Fortuyn is also right wing. More similarities.

[Buck Birdseed]

SM: the difference is exceedingly slim. We're not talking sort of muddy social-democrat underhand border-stoppering in either case- pure vicious anti-immigrant rhetoric is pure vicious anti-immigrant rhetoric.

[Saint Marcus]

SM: the difference is exceedingly slim.

There is a huge difference.

Read the Economist. They recently did a survey on Holland, and concluded that Fortuyn is indeed a whole lot different from Le Pen and De Winter.

[Juggernaut]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Fortuyn: don't expel immigrants living in Holland. only stop admitting new immigrants. Holland should still admit political refugees.

Le Pen: expel immigrants living in France, and stop admitting new immigrants (including political refugees).

Even you must see the difference.

Still makes Fortuyn a moron IMO. You don't have to oppose people just because you think they are wrong. I don't oppose christian democrats just because I think they are wrong. A society gotta show some ****ing tolerance.

[Saint Marcus]

Still makes Fortuyn a moron IMO

I agree.

Though it doesn't make him a Le Pen.

From The Economist: It would be wrong to assume that [Mr Fortuyn]is just another right-wing politician like Mr Le Pen, Austria's Jorg Haider or the leaders of Belgium's Vlaamse Blok.

[Sava]

Although I disagree with all those extreme righty/nazi views. I can understand their apprehension towards Muslim immigrants. Instead of expelling them, all the native Europeans should just start screwing like rabbits and making more babies than them.

[Solly]

Snapcase - "pure vicious anti-immigrant rhetoric is pure vicious anti-immigrant rhetoric."

Juggernaut - "A society gotta show some ****ing tolerance."

Fortuyn's policies of keeping Muslims out was in order to decrease intolerance in society; his reasoning being that Muslims tend to be more conservative and more intolerant of such things as homosexuality.

Surely liberals sh/would like this barrier against intolerance.

[*End Is Forever*]

I don't think Fortuyn is particularly right-wing at all. His attitude towards Islam was a result of his perception (rightly or wrongly) that Muslims themselves were far-right, in social terms; that is, homophobic, sexist, anti-euthanasia, anti-legalisation etc etc.

[Saint Marcus]

Surely liberals sh/would like this barrier against intolerance.

Yes, but that's nothing new. The first person to use the line "Holland is full" was Bolkenstein, a high ranking liberal. Fortuyn later copied it. Dijkstal, current leader of the Liberal Party, said that Holland isn't full, but it's pretty crowded. The Liberal Party has been trying to lower the number of immigrants for years now. The Liberals also don't criticise Fortuyn for wanting to stop the flow of immigrants, they simply criticise him for suggesting methods and goals that are impossible.

So what's your point?

Of course, you clearly don't seem to understand that liberals are right-wingers in Holland, and thus on the same side of the political spectrum as Fortuyn.

Back to school for you kiddo

[Dr Strangelove]

Please forive me for what follows: Isn't Netherlands one of those European countries where the native population is declining, but the net popukation slightly increasing due to immigration? If I were gay I would not want to see the native population, which is tolerant to gays, replaced by immigrants who advocate a philosophy which includes exterminating gays.