How to Invade the US/Europe ?

[TCO]

kitten,

i think the thread posited an invasion. This is different from a little spanking or a raid.

I have real doubts that either the US or EU could undertake an invasion of the other. I'm just making comments on side points where I agree or disagree with a side issue (for instance the discussion with Colon regarding divided forces.)

[Dom Pedro II]

Damn right, Ect. The Americans helped kill 10,000 of my countryman for the "good" of stopping communism.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Damn right, Ect. The Americans helped kill 10,000 of my countryman for the "good" of stopping communism.

Which countrymen would that be? The Brasilians?

Hey, how much of your GDP did you burn up buyiong that French Aircraft carrier?

[Dom Pedro II]

Yep, Brazilians...

Yeesh! Don't remind me about the aircraft carrier... *smacks forehead*

I'm surprised the damn thing was still floating when the check cleared.

[Lonestar]

At least you can use it to fight the...uh....

uhm....


Damn, can't think of anyone you guys would want to fight.

Except the producers of the Simpsons

[Saint Marcus]

You don't think the Israelis would keep the Suez open?

Why would they attack Egypt in the first place, since it's not an EU member.

Good for you. Wouldn't be enough.

Would be more than you'll get. If an Israeli-American alliance starts attacking Egypt and Europe, the Arabs will stop sending you oil.

Considering the 226 year old close relationship with the USA; likely.

LOL. Morroco isn't even an independent country for that long!

And France has better relations with Morroco than the USA.

Oh wait, that's right. It turns out the Europeans have no air capabilities at all! Nevermind.

American F-15s and F-18s won't stand much of a chance against European Typhoons and Rafales. As it stands, the US don't even have any new generation fighters.

And European forces focus on homeland defense, which wasn't the case in Kosovo but will be the case if the US attacks.

I also bet the Israelis would bomb llloooottttsssss of Oil facilities in the Persian Gulf Area.

Israel can't take on the whole muslim world at once. And this also means the US will get no oil from the ME anymore. They'll still supply Europe, and we can get our oil form Russia and Kazakstan. Don't know where the US will get it's oil though, since Venezuela and domestic production don't cut it.

and I think the only group of Submariners out there that could pull it off are the British.

And French.

Saint Marcus, Regardless of your point-by-point denial, the U.S. today has the power to do everything I said in my post. The EU doesn't have a chance.

Marcus: the US Air Force wouldn't have much trouble brushing aside European air defence...Britain with one of the more respectable militaries (France has the best, Germany one of the worst) has next to no air defences that could challenge the USAF. If the nature of the war demanded it and the USAF wanted to bomb the major European population centers to dust then they could.

There is no way the US can establish control of the European skies. Please show me how it's done? Take into account that the US will have to keep some planes at home for homeland defend. Take into account that the EU has more fighter aircraft than the US. Take into account that the EU has next gen aircraft while the US has not. Take into account that the US will have far longer supply lines. Take into account that the US will have no point from where to station and launch 1000+ fighter aircraft (carriers won't cut it). Take into account the sheer size of Europe. I await your answer.

[Saint Marcus]

And yeah, I'd advice those "USAF kicks ass, Europe doesn't any airpower"-guys to actually study on the issue before posting. As it stands, Europe's fighters outnumber America's fighters, and Europe has Gripen/Rafale/Typhoon aircraft that are far superior to anything the US has in service today.

[Akka]

Originally posted by Ned
Saint Marcus, Regardless of your point-by-point denial, the U.S. today has the power to do everything I said in my post. The EU doesn't have a chance.

But this really illustrates an important point. The EU really needs to invest more in military to help us out. For example, the EU could not even defeat Iraq by itself, IMHO. It would be nice to see the EU carrying 50% of the load, not 5% as it does now.

BTW, EU support is appreciated.

Ned

I do tend to agree that the combined armies of Europe are somewhat weaker than the US army, but no joking, Iraq would be a breeze to destroy. JFYI, one of the spearhead of the attacking armies in Iraq was the French armored division Daguet.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


Why would they attack Egypt in the first place, since it's not an EU member.

Why climb Mt. Everest?

Would be more than you'll get. If an Israeli-American alliance starts attacking Egypt and Europe, the Arabs will stop sending you oil.

So? Europeans get their oil from the Middleast. The USA gets pretty much all the oil from domestic and western hemisphere sources.

LOL. Morroco isn't even an independent country for that long!

And France has better relations with Morroco than the USA.

Au contraire. It was a independant country for quite a long time, with a brief interruption of French Imperialism.

burp.

American F-15s and F-18s won't stand much of a chance against European Typhoons and Rafales. As it stands, the US don't even have any new generation fighters.

The Rafale is just a improved version of the Mirage, and the Typhoon isn't even in service. This is in addition, of course, to the fact that Europe has piss-poor AAMs.

As for Next Generation fighters....The F/A-18E Super Hornet comes to mind. The F-22 will be entering service right about the same time as the Typhoon. And the F-22 is way the hell superior to the Typhoon.

And European forces focus on homeland defense, which wasn't the case in Kosovo but will be the case if the US attacks.

Well, can't argue with that.

'Course, American forces are geared towards power projection...

Israel can't take on the whole muslim world at once. And this also means the US will get no oil from the ME anymore. They'll still supply Europe, and we can get our oil form Russia and Kazakstan. Don't know where the US will get it's oil though, since Venezuela and domestic production don't cut it.

You'd be amazed at how hard a people can fight if they are (1) better trained, (2) better equiped, and (3) know they are facing certain death if the other guy wins.

Domestic Production...Venezuela...Mexico...and Nigeria.(actually in Africa, my bad).

Besides, in a General war, there would be rationing anyway.

And French.

BWAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!! We need to get GP in here! French subs are very, very loud! We'd detect and kill 'em before they got within range!

I'd roll 'em too, except those muscles are tired.

There is no way the US can establish control of the European skies. Please show me how it's done? Take into account that the US will have to keep some planes at home for homeland defend. Take into account that the EU has more fighter aircraft than the US. Take into account that the EU has next gen aircraft while the US has not. Take into account that the US will have far longer supply lines. Take into account that the US will have no point from where to station and launch 1000+ fighter aircraft (carriers won't cut it). Take into account the sheer size of Europe. I await your answer.

Surely. I actually think I said it would be hard-near impossible, but I'll take a crack.

(1)The EU has more fighter aircraft....and this means what? As the Kosovo campaign showed, the European Air Forces couldn't muster enough air power to take up even a quarter of the NATO force. There were a couple reasons for this;

-The Europeans didn't trust their pilots to go into a combat zone/insufficient training.

- Most European militaries don't take into account spare parts/replacements/what have you. A large number of jets were frounded for that reason.

So, have the European militaries been striving to improve their readiness? From what we've seen, no. (The French Carrier Charles de Gaulle didn't even make it out to the Arabian sea for several months, as the French didn't have the budget for spare parts for the thing)

Another thing, the Europeans, besides the "never-explode-exocet", have no cruise missiles. None. The British have a few subs equiped with Tomahawks, but that's it. American Subs can crawl up to 100, 200, km off shore and blast European airstrips. There wouldn't be enough warning to get the planes off the ground. Wouldn't even have to try to sneak into the North Sea (or punch there way through the Med). Just sit off the Iberian pennisula and blast the Spanish and Portugese air forces to hell. The other European Nations would be compelled to send their airforces there to help protect Spain and Portugal, or they would catch political hell. Either way, it would dramatically reduce the numbers of planes we'd have to take out.


(2) Next Generation aircraft. Not really all that next Generation. More like "Current American Generation". Even then, the USN has the F/A-18E Super Hornet (not to be confused with the smaller, way the hell older F/A-18 Hornet) in production.

In addition, the big deal is that the Europeans...have very little in the way of indigeonous AAMs. The USN would wipe them out. [Darth Sideous Mode on] All of them [/Darth Sideous Mode]

(3) Well, when you're right, you're right..

Fortunatly, Europe has even longer supply lines. Most convoys could be smashed before they reached Europe. Unless, of course, Europe moved signifigant Naval power to protect them. In which case, American SSNs and SSGNs would have a even easier time of sneaking up to the European coast and blasting targets.

(4) Station, station, station....

I bet Turkey would be more than happy to let use fly planes outta their country. After all, the EU "Christian Club" hasn't been letting them for quite awhile. Plus, any thing to bloody the Greeks.

I also predict Greenland and Iceland would fall to a American Invasion quicker than you can say "McDonalds!".

(5)Sheer size of Europe? How quaint! You think your contient is big! :P


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Akka whatever your name is ( )

You're right about the French armored division taking part in the spearhead to drive out the Iraqis.

Although that was 12 years and a Cold War ago. Doubt the European Militaries are what they onvce were.

[TCO]

Lonestar, Marcus frequently refers to EU weapons which they don't have yet. It makes him feel better, given what they have now (worse).

[KrazyHorse]

Domestic Production...Venezuela...Mexico...and Nigeria.(actually in Africa, my bad)

For the third time: who's your biggest petrosupplier?

[Ecthy]

Erm... pulling the Israeli population into a war against Europe and the Middle East would be the silliest of all moves by the US. Just think about how much that country wouldbe fucked up by them, regardless how inferior they are in the long term. You can't make war on your borders without losses in the population, and fighting all muslim countries around would be a hell for the population of Israel. Such a move by the US would be reason enough for me to join in the war, and if it means fighting off Naval bastards on Frieslandish marches or the Portuguese algarve for that matter

[Ecthy]

June 17, 2004

Mission: ADR-13912
Leading officer: V, Andreas
Territory: Southern Negev
Debriefing:

...
...
Prisoners: 2 officers, 7 privates, 1 medic
Names: ..., ..., Sirotnikov, D.

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

Domestic Production...Venezuela...Mexico...and Nigeria.(actually in Africa, my bad)

For the third time: who's your biggest petrosupplier?

I imagine that the largest national source for the US is internal (US production). Is that right?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by GP


I imagine that the largest national source for the US is internal (US production). Is that right?

I think he's refering to the Canuckians oil in Alberta.