US Opts Out of World Court

[Imran Siddiqui]

We are the good guys. If you want to look for problems there are more rich opportunities elsewhere.

Yes, we are the good guys. So we should sign international agreements to show that people should abide by international law.

[TCO]

KH, surely you can at least comprehend (if not agree) that there might be desires other than a legitimate fear which would casue other countires to want to hamstring the Gulliver?

[David Floyd]

IIRC, the League of Nations approved anti-war crimes legislation. That was replaced by the tougher Geneva Convention standards.

And Germany withdrew from the League. Geneva never allowed for anything resembling Nuremburg.
The US never even ratified the Geneva Convention until 1982, by the way.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And Germany withdrew from the League.

Doesn't matter. The laws were still there.

The US never even ratified the Geneva Convention until 1982, by the way.

And you wonder why other countries hate our guts . We are hypocrites.

[KrazyHorse]

GP, your major contention was that we shouldn't be worried about you because you're the good guys and you don't let your military play fast and loose with the rules. I provided instances where this has not always been the case.

Also not mentioned: I seem to recall that only a single person was convicted for the My Lai massacre. Strange, given how many people were involved. Nobody can be trusted to police themselves. Telling us not to worry is just silly...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by GP
KH, surely you can at least comprehend (if not agree) that there might be desires other than a legitimate fear which would casue other countires to want to hamstring the Gulliver?

Sure, but isn't that why there would be some sort of fair trial?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I seem to recall that only a single person was convicted for the My Lai massacre.

Actually the leader of the unit was convicted, IIRC.

[KrazyHorse]

Lt. Calley (sp)

a) Why only him?

b) IIRC, he only served 5 years

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Nobody can be trusted to police themselves. Telling us not to worry is just silly...

The ICC doesn't have any police power, KH. It is a meaningless feel good measure given the shear number that haven't agreed to its ratification. "The nobody can be trusted to police themselves" arguement is a nonstarter.

[David Floyd]

Doesn't matter. The laws were still there.

So if the US withdraws from the UN it is still obliged to follow UN rules and mandates and such?

We are hypocrites.

As Nuremburg certainly proved - ex post facto laws violate our own Constitution, yet we had no problem applying them to Germans.

But in any case, AFAIK the Geneva Convention did not provide for something like Nuremburg to right wrongs, and even if it did most of the people tried at Nuremburg and elsewhere were unjustly convicted as I showed above.

[Imran Siddiqui]

a) Why only him?

Usually international law (precedent from Nuremburg) spares the common soldier, and prosecutes the leader of the unit. Or else, we'd have to kill most of the German soldiers back then.

b) IIRC, he only served 5 years

He actually recieved a life sentance... but I think it didn't survive appeal.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So if the US withdraws from the UN it is still obliged to follow UN rules and mandates and such?

If the UN beats us in a war, yes.

As Nuremburg certainly proved - ex post facto laws violate our own Constitution, yet we had no problem applying them to Germans.

But in any case, AFAIK the Geneva Convention did not provide for something like Nuremburg to right wrongs, and even if it did most of the people tried at Nuremburg and elsewhere were unjustly convicted as I showed above.

The constitution does not provide for the Supreme Court to be able to use judicial review... it is extropolated from it. Enforcement mechanisms are things that are made.

Oh, and didn't you know David, might makes right. This ICC (and to a certain extent ICJ) is trying to stop this and apply 'rights' to all citizens and countries. You should be happy with it.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


The ICC doesn't have any police power, KH. It is a meaningless feel good measure given the shear number that haven't agreed to its ratification. "The nobody can be trusted to police themselves" arguement is a nonstarter.

It provides a level of accountability to the ROW, Dino...

[Imran Siddiqui]

KH:

The Army reduced his sentence to 20 years, President Richard Nixon in 1971 ordered him released from prison and placed under house arrest, and finally a federal judge threw out all charges against William Calley and ordered him freed. Although the charges were later re-instated on appeal, he served no more jail time for My Lai.

http://www.dade.k12.fl.us/edison/calley.htm

[Grrr]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

And you said 1922 Hitler, remember. We're talking about a Hitler who had yet to do anything but write rotten things.

Yes, but we KNOW he was. I'd kill one man to save millions... anyday.

So when are you going to take up arms on BUSH before he kills millions.