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  • US Opts Out of World Court

    U.S. Abandons War Crimes Tribunal Pact
    Mon May 6, 5:38 PM ET
    By HARRY DUNPHY, Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON (AP) - The United States said Monday it wants nothing to do with a treaty creating the first permanent international war crimes tribunal, a decision immediately criticized by human rights groups and some lawmakers. Others welcomed the move.

    "We believe that states, not international institutions, are primarily responsible for ensuring justice in the international system," Marc Grossman, the undersecretary of state for political affairs, said in announcing the Bush administration decision.

    As constituted today, Grossman said, the international criminal court "claims the authority to detain and try American citizens, even though our democratically elected representatives have not agreed to be bound by the treaty."

    That threatens U.S. sovereignty, he said.

    Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said the tribunal's planned July 1 start-up "means that our men and women in uniform _as well as current and former U.S. officials_ could be at risk of prosecution.

    Particularly in the midst of the war against terrorism, Rumsfeld said, the flaws in the treaty are "particularly troubling."

    Although nations have the authority to try non-citizens who commit crimes against their citizens or on their territory, "the United States has never recognized the right of an international organization to do so" without its consent or without a U.N. Security Council mandate, Grossman said.

    The International Criminal Court gained the necessary international backing to come into being last month when 10 nations joined 56 others in ratifying the treaty, negotiated in Rome in 1998.

    President Clinton (news - web sites) signed the treaty, but never submitted it to the Senate for ratification. The Bush administration has made its opposition clear.

    Pierre-Richard Prosper, the U.S. ambassador for war crimes issues, said the United States has no intention of ratifying the treaty and now considers itself "no longer bound in any way to its purpose and objective." The declaration was contained in a letter to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) delivered to U.N. headquarters in New York.

    Grossman, in a speech Monday in Washington, said President Bush (news - web sites) wanted to formally renounce the treaty to avoid creating expectations of U.S. involvement in the future.

    Instead, the United States favors working with nongovernment organizations, private industry and universities and law schools to help individual countries set up tribunals when needed, officials said.

    But Sen. Russ Feingold (news, bio, voting record), D-Wis., a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he was dismayed by the decision.

    "Beyond the extremely problematic matter of casting doubt on the U.S. commitment to international justice and accountability," Feingold said, "these steps actually call into question our country's credibility in all multilateral endeavors."

    House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said Bush "sent a clear message we do not support this rogue court ... an institution of unchecked power that poses a real threat to our men and women fighting the war against terror.

    Rep. Henry Hyde (news, bio, voting record), R-Ill., chairman of the House International Relations Committee, said, "We simply cannot accept an international institution that claims jurisdiction over American citizens."

    But Human Rights Watch, an advocacy group, described the decision as an empty gesture that will further estrange Washington from its allies.

    The Washington Working Group on the ICC, a coalition of organizations that support the tribunal, said the decision "signals to the world that America is turning its back on decades of U.S. leadership in prosecuting war criminals since the Nuremberg trials."

    The coalition includes human rights organizations such as Amnesty International-USA and Physicians for Social Responsibility.

    The court, to be formed this summer, will fill a gap in the international justice system first recognized by the U.N. General Assembly in 1948 after the Nuremberg and Tokyo trials for World War II's German and Japanese war criminals.

    Tribunals have been created for special situations — like the 1994 Rwanda genocide — but no mechanism existed to hold individuals criminally responsible for serious crimes such as genocide.

    ***********************



    Although a bit hypocritical, considering the travesty at Nuremburg. Oh well, still good that we're out of this ****.
    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
    Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

  • #2


    Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said the tribunal's planned July 1 start-up "means that our men and women in uniform _as well as current and former U.S. officials_ could be at risk of prosecution.


    This is a bald-faced lie and Rumsfeld knows it.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

    Comment


    • #3
      Maybe, but I'm strongly against international tribunals trying Americans, ever.
      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
      Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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      • #4
        Yes, but the way we've made them re-write the original treaty means that no Americans will probably ever be tried. 99.9% chance that Americans will never face the ICC, unless as witnesses against someone else.
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

        Comment


        • #5
          Can't say that I'm surprised... doesn't really piss me off any less, though.
          "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
          "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, but the way we've made them re-write the original treaty means that no Americans will probably ever be tried. 99.9% chance that Americans will never face the ICC, unless as witnesses against someone else.
            Frankly, I oppose a citizen of any nation having to face an international court. This applies to Nazis, Slobo, Saddam - anyone.
            Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
            Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              The court is crap

              Comment


              • #8
                I think the US should be for more internationalism, Floyd. That means part of the ICC, more support of the UN, more into foreign aid for education and health care in the 3rd World, and more consulation with allies.
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Frankly, I oppose a citizen of any nation having to face an international court. This applies to Nazis, Slobo, Saddam - anyone.


                  Yes, and you are a loony.

                  I bet you also oppose any citizen of a US state having to face a federal court too.
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the US should be for more internationalism, Floyd. That means part of the ICC, more support of the UN, more into foreign aid for education and health care in the 3rd World, and more consulation with allies.
                    Why? That will just embroil us in foreign wars.

                    I bet you also oppose any citizen of a US state having to face a federal court too.
                    No, not in cases of federal crimes

                    Why should anyone be subjected to an international tribunal against their will?
                    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                    Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                    • #11
                      Why? That will just embroil us in foreign wars.


                      We aren't embroiled in foreign wars now?

                      No, not in cases of federal crimes


                      What about cases of international crimes?

                      Why should anyone be subjected to an international tribunal against their will?


                      Why should anyone be subjected to a federal court against their will? After all the Supreme Court does take state cases.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Typical example of double standards. The US won't answer for it's own crimes but expects everyone else to tow the line
                        Speaking of Erith:

                        "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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                        • #13
                          We aren't embroiled in foreign wars now?
                          The War on Terror, which is slowly being taken too far, of course - but heavy involvement with international organizations will soon embroil us in countless "peacekeeping ops" and "police actions", and American lives will be lost.

                          What about cases of international crimes?
                          What, like crimes against humanity? I don't believe there is any such thing. Either it is against your nation's laws or it isn't, and if not you shouldn't be punished for it.

                          Why should anyone be subjected to a federal court against their will? After all the Supreme Court does take state cases.
                          Sure, SCOTUS takes state court cases if there is a valid Constitutional issue. And US citizens may be subjected to federal courts because there are Constitutionally allowed federal crimes and a method for establishing federal courts. The Constitution says nothing about international courts, although George Washington warned specifically against internationalism.
                          Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                          Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                          • #14
                            Yes, Floyd. Hitler and his henchmen shouldn't have been punished. What they did wasn't illegal. They should have been released and we all would have lived happily ever after. Tra la la la la.

                            You are, quite simply, unbelievable.
                            "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                            "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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                            • #15
                              atleast he is consistent for the last year . much more than any of the rest of us

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