The Worthlessness of Arts Degrees

[Asher]

Calculus involves addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and sometimes even modulus.

[Roland]

"addition, subtraction, multiplication, division"

Grundrechnungsarten! Hurenverfickte Grundrechnungsarten!

lol

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ooooh Ooooh! We might even have fractions .

[Urban Ranger]

Sometimes calc involves evil trig functions

[Solly]

I never got my head around all that (coshin)^-1 and all that bollocks...

WHAT'S THE POINT!

[TCO]

Originally posted by Roland


What background, what can they handle ? Differential equations ? Or what ?

Roland, mostly just accounting calulations and Excel spreadsheet design. DCF valuation models and the like. The actual math level is not so hard. (complicated arithmatic, little bit of algebra, maybe some limited programming ability (simple IF THEN ELSE or MAX commands with some nesting in Excel for example.) It's more an issue of interest/fear/comfort with doing some crunching, rather than counrse knowledge. I think anybody who's had High school math (American, even) has the strict background to do this stuff.

Now, what are you Yanks supposed to learn under "calculus" ?

You are losing me, big guy. Do you really think there would be much difference in classical calculus in any country on the planet?

[JohnT]

I think he was making a joke based upon your poorly worded statement about calculus involving math. You quant people don't know how to write for *hit and I just figured that pointing that out would've been... well, too easy. I don't like the cheap shots.

But, apparently Roland does.

[TCO]

Yes, my writing sucks. But when Herr Apfelstrudle questions it, we get even more convoluted...

[Roland]

Guys that wasn't a shot at anyone. Not even at Mister Applepie.

"Do you really think there would be much difference in classical calculus in any country on the planet?"

We don't call it "calculus". I knew it is some basic math, but not what exactly. Hence the enlightening moment when I realised it is just Grundrechnungsarten. And several US terms have strange meanings - like "gun control" = "gun ban", "bilingual education" ="monolingual education" etc. "College" = "Hauptschule" - oh wait, that was a cheap shot.

So what do they learn in that hard core derivatives class you mentioned ?

[TCO]

Thanks for your post. I was starting to wonder if your entire posts were tongue in cheek. (I.e. you knew what "quant" meant, etc.)

1. I didn't take the derivatives course. It was my buddy who audited it. (He had desk accross from me in our lab.) He was a pretty gifted math/science type. (postdoc in chemical physics...) So of course, he was attracted to that type of stuff.

I really don't know the exact material covered. (Presumably it was an overview of the different types of options that are out there. And some options pricing theory. Sorry...I'm just guessing here. I do know that it was the second course in a series. John had to "catch up" from what was in the first one.)

2. My gut feel is that the kids here who are taking several AP classes are getting the equivelant of Austrian Gymnasium training. Granted, we have a pretty sharp bunch at this site, that is not representative. In fact Austrian/German schooling system may be superior, especially for what I would call the second tier of kids. (The lower half of Gymnasium, lets say.)

My sister attended an Austrian private school for a year (in 11th grade). Admittedly not a premier one. She thought overall that the public school we attended was mroe rigorous. Admittedly we were at one of the best schools in the country (Washington D.C. suburbs) and taking the "smarty track" courses.

As far as I can recall, some of her observations:

German was rather tough for her. Because of the language learning curve. but for a native speaker would not be as tough as an "upper track" English course. I.e. the essay-writing and level of critical thinking for literary analysis was higher at home.

Latin was a ball-buster. Moving into a 3rd year foreing language course in a foreign language course yourself. Well, she just couldn't amke it through that. But the course content was simlar to what one would learn in the US. It's pretty much a classical (get it hahaha) type of course.

English was of course a breeze for her. The level of mastery of a foreign language by her Austiran classmates was superior to that one would find in US in reverse.

Math was actually a slight step back. She was a year accelerated in the US system. (As are all the kids who end up taking AP calculus.)

History wasn't too tough. Pretty similar to the level of difficulty that she had had in World history in previous 2 hs grades at home. But she did miss out on a more rigorous type history class (AP American History) that she would have had that year at home. OTOH, 12th grade history, actually civics but in the history curriculum, was a joke (at home).

Overall was a slight negative for her academically. (both in rigor and in getting a little sidetracked from the inevetable gaps involved in switching in and out of a different system.) But she gained a lot of intellectual and social confidence from the exercise. And learned German pretty well...

3. (specific issue) My mom took calculus in Aust high school. Was about what one would get in first year US college calc or AP calc. According to her it didn't cover what one would get in second year of US college math training: 3rd semester (multivariable) calc and diff e q s.

[TCO]

Roland,

My Collins G/E dictionary has the following translations for "calculus": Infinitesmalrechnung, Differential- und Integralrechnung.

It's the stuff that Newton and Leibniz invented. You know: derivatives, integrals. Slope of a line tangent to a curve, area under a curve. That crap.

[Roland]

"I was starting to wonder if your entire posts were tongue in cheek. (I.e. you knew what "quant" meant, etc.)"

I simply didn't know what _exactly_ you meant, and had a genuine problem relating it to the topic.

"Infinitesmalrechnung, Differential- und Integralrechnung."

That makes more sense, yes.

"My sister attended an Austrian private school for a year (in 11th grade)."

So that would be 7. Klasse Gymnasium ? As she had latin and english - neusprachliches ?

One has to be careful with such anecdotal comparisons. A friend of mine spent a year at a US highschool, and he said he had almost un-learned learning there. I don't think he was fully "integrated" into all requirements. And I do not think your sister had to meet the usual standard on eg "literary analysis", especially if she was struggling with the language a bit.