Where do you draw the line???

[Buck Birdseed]

I'm probably exceptional in that I consider myself extremist left-wing while most people on the left would consider me center-left as best.

[Natan]

Our research shows that blacks comprise 62.7 percent and whites 36.7 percent of all drug offenders admitted to state prison, even though federal surveys and other data detailed in this report show clearly that this racial disparity bears scant relation to racial differences in drug offending. There are, for example, five times more white drug users than black.

This is so misleading that it really makes me think ill of Human Rights Watch. There are five times more white drug users than black, but more than five times as many white people as black ones, so blacks actually do use drugs at a higher rate than whites. Using absolute numbers as opposed to percentages in this case is a very cheap trick to avoid dealing with that fact.

[orange]

aww, now see Carver, look what you've gone and done. You've made a nice respectable liberal-leftist like me go and agree with Natan.

Moral of the story: Propoganda corrupts the minds of even the most well-meaning individuals, and destroys any chance at making a sound argument.

[Carver]

Originally posted by Natan

This is so misleading that it really makes me think ill of Human Rights Watch. There are five times more white drug users than black, but more than five times as many white people as black ones, so blacks actually do use drugs at a higher rate than whites. Using absolute numbers as opposed to percentages in this case is a very cheap trick to avoid dealing with that fact.

Do you put a bucket over your head every time your eyes are confronted with the truth?

"There are five times more white drug users than black". That means 80% of those convicted for drug offences should be white. But they are not. Why? Because they are white. The laws are only enforced against minorities.

[Natan]

Okay, you got me completely there. :
But as I understand it, it's the dealers who go to prison.

[Carver]

Originally posted by orange
Propoganda corrupts the minds of even the most well-meaning individuals, and destroys any chance at making a sound argument.

The propaganda present in America is the same propaganda that has always been present: "blacks are criminals and lazy and deserve anything bad that happens to them". Likened to President Theodore Roosevelt saying, when faced with lynchings of blacks throughout the South and denial of blacks' voting and property rights, that blacks needed to enfranchise themselves, I can't do it for them. What a pittiful excuse for a "government" the U.S. has had.

[orange]

Originally posted by Carver
Do you put a bucket over your head every time your eyes are confronted with the truth?

"There are five times more white drug users than black". That means 80% of those convicted for drug offences should be white. But they are not. Why? Because they are white. The laws are only enforced against minorities.

Urban ratio of Blacks to white is damn near 4:1

Factor in standard of living Blacks compared to Whites.

You do the math. I agree that there's a problem, but it isn't racial, it's urban vs. rural.

Cops don't go around with a quota from 'the man' "Be sure to arrest 10 Black guys for every 1 White guy"

[Carver]

Originally posted by orange

Cops don't go around with a quota from 'the man' "Be sure to arrest 10 Black guys for every 1 White guy"

No, most don't. But cops in urban areas are told, "arrest as many people as possible". Whereas cops in rural areas are told, "be friendly, get the cats out of the trees, don't OD on doughnuts...".

[orange]

Originally posted by Carver
No, most don't. But cops in urban areas are told, "arrest as many people as possible". Whereas cops in rural areas are told, "be friendly, get the cats out of the trees, don't OD on doughnuts...".

Cops in any area pick their battles...but I'd say a rural cop is MORE likely to arrest someone they find doing/selling drugs than an urban cop is because it's all too common in the cities, and they know as well as you do that the minute they take the guy off the streets, another poor sap will come out and replace him.

[David Floyd]

Ah, what do other Libertarians support that I disagree with? Nothing really, although I think it is necessary to eliminate social services, welfare, subsidized health care, the minimum wage, etc., before opening our borders.

[SpencerH]

A good example of the racial disparity with respect to drug enforcement in the USA is the difference in penalties for crack (used primarily by african americans) vs powdered cocaine (used primarily by white americans) despite the fact that its the same drug.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Carver


to quote Human Rights Watch:

Our research shows that blacks comprise 62.7 percent and whites 36.7 percent of all drug offenders admitted to state prison, even though federal surveys and other data detailed in this report show clearly that this racial disparity bears scant relation to racial differences in drug offending. There are, for example, five times more white drug users than black. Relative to population, black men are admitted to state prison on drug charges at a rate that is 13.4 times greater than that of white men. In large part because of the extraordinary racial disparities in incarceration for drug offenses, blacks are incarcerated for all offenses at 8.2 times the rate of whites. One in every 20 black men over the age of 18 in the United States is in state or federal prison, compared to one in 180 white men.


So you see, law enforcement in the United States is, as it always has been, biased against people who are not white. The letter of the law may make no distiction between the 'races', but the police, while enforcing the law (selectively) do. Drug use is just as rampant amoung whites in America as it is amoung blakcs; but the police in white neighborhoods don't stop and frisk people for no reason as they do in minority neighborhoods. And when drugs are found on whites the police just tell the offenders to throw the drugs into the bush or into the garbage.

In synopsis, when the playing field is level, we can terminate affirmative action.

Thank You.

P.S. For further enlightenment: HRW

Control for income levels and tell me how it comes out. You'll find that a poor crackhead (white or black) is a lot more likely to

a) get busted, and
b) do time

than his rich cousin doing coke in Beverly Hills is...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Natan

This is so misleading that it really makes me think ill of Human Rights Watch. There are five times more white drug users than black, but more than five times as many white people as black ones, so blacks actually do use drugs at a higher rate than whites. Using absolute numbers as opposed to percentages in this case is a very cheap trick to avoid dealing with that fact.

Natan, as far as I see it, he's not claiming that blacks don't use more drugs than whites per capita, but that incarceration levels for blacks are much higher than you would expect, given their share of the drug-using population.

Note the disparity between there being 5 times as many white drug users, but twice as many black inmates on drug charges.

[Ramo]

Yep, note the crack-powder cocaine sentencing disparity, for instance.

[MrFun]

Thanks for trying to thread-jack this into a discussion on racial quotas in relations to criminal arrests and prosecutions.

I believe that the law enforcement operates on the racist ideology in cities where white cops clearly dominate, and where minority officers are nill.

Now, back to the topic --- start a separate thread on race and law enforcement if you wish.


Oh, and can you guys stop flaming David Floyd? Unless you're just joking with him.

Give him a chance to show that he is not an extreme libertarian, and then let him discuss what he sees as too extreme in libertarian ideology. (don't get me wrong --- I strongly disagree with David on many points, but I try to respect him)

He might have misread the theme of this thread, but I think we were all guilty at one time or another for mistaking a thread's topic.