Am I a anti-semitist?

[Ecthy]

I'm not joking, it's my humourous (what a crap word, no surprise yanks dropped the U) attitudeto ANY topic. I'm being serious. You guys are being superficial. You just don't know it, because you are. Or something like that, I know itz sounds totally stupid but to us it just must seem like that because we always get the same answer.

('us' as in 'guys that don't say yes to anything the state Israel does')

[Chris 62]

Sometimes you need to look deeper.

Are you aware, for example, that the Nazis had numerious studies and symposiums about their racial polices?

They sounded very close to what you read here, reasonable on the surface, but an enderlying level of hatred.

Ask yourself a question:

Do you think jews have rights?

That question was asked here.

Etlelred says no (and before he tries to deny it, I quoted him, so he can forget it).

All humans have rights.

He says Jews have none.

It doesn't bother you, or Kro, or lots of other people.

But he just said jews aern't human in the same sentance by saying that.
But you say I should lighten up, Kro says I don't know who is quoting what, Cyber says I'm ranting, ect....

Yet not one of you cares that he says that Jews are historical thieves that deserve nothing, have no rights, and never did.

That is INCREDIBLY racist, and spot on Nazi thinking.

I might also add, your attitude is similar to many in the 1930s, "it's no big deal".

Look at what happened.

[Ecthy]

Sorry, Chris... I know some people here don't know what they're talking about, and I know how damn industrial and technologically advancing the Nazis were at their "technical realisation" of their racial ideology as well as that ideology as such. Though I'm certain even those that you disagree with the most know to distinguish. And if not, they're damn stupid and you can always say "hey, think about this for once"

Your comparison above was a little too brief for being sensible I find. But whatever, your fear is probably justified. People forget too quickly. However, though I must admit I'm in a "no big deal" mood these days, I have to say that differs from that old one. There's a border line between noticing parallels to the thirties and being paranoid. I think all of us are in the "upper class" of intelligence (well, most of us ), so I think we can recognize stuff when it's on. There just is no anti-semitism in the masses, although it is undoubtedly there. As long as people see it, report it and go on the streets for demonstrating, there is not a big need to worry.

You will find I'm friends with at least some of the Israeli posters here.

Did you receive my PM?

Sorry for any inconvenience now, I'm outta here, and think of the victims rather than your debate victory, guys!

[Kropotkin]

*sigh*
OK I know I said I wasn't gonna post any more but I can't escape my duty to inform you that refusing jews as a ethnic group rights to what the claim is their ancient homeland is not the same as refusing jews human rights!

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sikander


Ned, you may be thinking of the Hittites, who were a major IE power in the region before the Assyrians. The Assyrians came from the same general direction (i.e. north, though more to the east), but their power waned later IIRC.

No, Actually I was told the Assyrians were Indo-European by someone, I don't remember who. I did not investigate it independently.

Regardless, it was clear to me that Ethelred believed that the people who the Romans settled into the ruins of Israel in 135 were Arabs, i.e., from Arabian. A lot of his thinking and positions flowed from this basic misinformation, I believe.

I believe Feisal (also spelled, Faysal, Faisal) declared that all inhabitants of the region that spoke Arabic were Arabs. I do not know whether this was a new phenomenon or not. Certainly, the Arabs made major distinctions between those of Arabian descent and conquered peoples in the times of the early Caliphs.

The indigenous peoples of Palestine in 1917 were not “Arabs” as most of us would understand that term. They were “Syrian” and Jewish. The last time they were a free people and could vote, they were Roman citizens.

Today, these distinctions are lost to history and are no longer relevant. The people of Palestine believe themselves to be Arab. That is all that is necessary.

Even though I have not been able to uncover a complete historical record, it seems clear the split between the Arabs and the Jews occurred in 1919-20. The Feisal-Weizmann document was very cordial and permitted large migrations of Jews into Palestine. However, Feisal was clearly under the impression that he would be King of a Syria that would include Palestine. When the French intervened and deposed him, all hell broke lose. That hell remains even ‘til this day.

Ned

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
*sigh*
OK I know I said I wasn't gonna post any more but I can't escape my duty to inform you that refusing jews as a ethnic group rights to what the claim is their ancient homeland is not the same as refusing jews human rights!

It nice that someone else is capable of the distinction.

Thank you.

[Kropotkin]

Oh that's nothing. I've had that kind of chats with chris62 myself....

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Ned
Regardless, it was clear to me that Ethelred believed that the people who the Romans settled into the ruins of Israel in 135 were Arabs, i.e., from Arabian. A lot of his thinking and positions flowed from this basic misinformation, I believe.

I think I said Arabs or perhaps Semites. In any case case I was not thinking of people from the Arabian peninsula. My thinking comes from the Jews being mostly gone from the land in the intervening centuries.

The indigenous peoples of Palestine in 1917 were not “Arabs” as most of us would understand that term. They were “Syrian” and Jewish. The last time they were a free people and could vote, they were Roman citizens.

They were still Semitic Romans and there were few Jews in comparison to the non-Jews in the intervening 1800 years.

Today, these distinctions are lost to history and are no longer relevant. The people of Palestine believe themselves to be Arab. That is all that is necessary.

Well they are basicly Arab now. Even the Egyptians often think of themselves as Arab.

Even though I have not been able to uncover a complete historical record, it seems clear the split between the Arabs and the Jews occurred in 1919-20. The Feisal-Weizmann document was very cordial and permitted large migrations of Jews into Palestine. However, Feisal was clearly under the impression that he would be King of a Syria that would include Palestine. When the French intervened and deposed him, all hell broke lose. That hell remains even ‘til this day.

Ned

That is the way it looks to me as well. I hadn't known about the French before. Thanks for that. OOOH now I can blame the French. Zo will be annoyed with me again. So I won't actually do that. I prefer to blame the Brits on this one.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
Oh that's nothing. I've had that kind of chats with chris62 myself....

I would really like to pretend he isn't there but he keeps distorting the heck out of what I say. I haven't decided if I want to bother going over the latest pack of nonsense or not. If he hasn't learned how to comprehend by now he may never do it.

I was very suprised when I looked at his profile and found he is only ten years younger than I am. I really expected to see the he was in High School based on his behaviour.

I don't like to put that sort of info in my profile but I don't hide my age or anything. There are too many wackos on the net that I really don't want to get information about me too easily. Not talking about Chris in this instance. I am talking about the script kiddies.

[Ethelred]

I have decided to cover a few of Chis's rants. Allowing this sort stuff to go be said about me is not something I am comfortable with.

Originally posted by Chris 62
Ask yourself a question:

Do you think jews have rights?

Why yes Chris they do have rights.

That question was asked here.

Etlelred says no (and before he tries to deny it, I quoted him, so he can forget it).

You never quoted me saying any such thing.

All humans have rights.

He says Jews have none.

I never said anysuch thing.

But he just said jews aern't human in the same sentance by saying that.

A lie on top of a distortion.

Yet not one of you cares that he says that Jews are historical thieves that deserve nothing, have no rights, and never did.

I never said any of those things Chris. I did say the Bible shows the Jews taking the land by force. No one but you has tried to deny this. The Bible is quite clear about it.

That is INCREDIBLY racist, and spot on Nazi thinking.

If I had ever said those things that would be true. Since I didn't say any of it the conclusion is false.

I might also add, your attitude is similar to many in the 1930s, "it's no big deal".

Look at what happened.

It is a big deal to lie and distort and rant and rave. That is why I am replying to this toxic waste you have posted.

I have shown full well I can out insult you so I won't bother with that any more. I am stunned the neither of us have been gagged for it as it is. Especially YOU chris. Your hate towards me seems to know no bounds and all based on something that only exists in your head.

You owe an apology to every one on this thread that has been exposed to this filth and hate you are spewing.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Dancing Cow

[This has been a calming rant interruption by The Emperor Fabulous.]

[Az]

EF

[laurentius]

@ EF. I gues nobody saw that one coming, I sure didnt.

[S. Kroeze]

Originally posted by Ned
Actually I was told the Assyrians were Indo-European by someone, I don't remember who. I did not investigate it independently.

The Assyrians were not Indo-European either! Assyrian is also a Semitic language. Possibly some Asssyrians may have had some Indo-European ancestors. 'Racial purity' is highly exceptional.

Regardless, it was clear to me that Ethelred believed that the people who the Romans settled into the ruins of Israel in 135 were Arabs, i.e., from Arabian.

Some of the settlers may have come out of Arabia and/or the Syrian desert, speaking Arabic. Many of them were nomads, constantly on the move.

The indigenous peoples of Palestine in 1917 were not “Arabs” as most of us would understand that term. They were “Syrian” and Jewish. The last time they were a free people and could vote, they were Roman citizens.

In my book everyone speaking Arabic as native language may be called an 'Arab'. Nationalism is a typically European invention.
Those "Syrians" spoke Arabic, but considered themselves first and foremost 'Muslim' (or Christian).
Under Roman rule they were not free, couldn't vote and didn't have civil rights.

Today, these distinctions are lost to history and are no longer relevant. The people of Palestine believe themselves to be Arab.

Here I completely agree!

Even though I have not been able to uncover a complete historical record, it seems clear the split between the Arabs and the Jews occurred in 1919-20. The Feisal-Weizmann document was very cordial and permitted large migrations of Jews into Palestine. However, Feisal was clearly under the impression that he would be King of a Syria that would include Palestine. When the French intervened and deposed him, all hell broke lose. That hell remains even ‘til this day.
Ned

A general question: Many Jews were and are anti-Zionist.
Should we consider them anti-Semites?

Just one example:
"When Theodor Herzl proposed the idea of a Jewish state in Der Judenstaat in 1896, the idea was rejected by most Jews in both Europe and America. Jews in Palestine were also opposed to the territorial and political goals of Zionism out of fear that Jewish immigration would disturb their good relations with both Moslem and Christian neighbors.(!) Moreover, an attempt to establish a Jewish state in Palestine would very likely heighten oppressive controls of the Ottoman government then ruling Palestine.

The British and the Zionists shared a colonialist stereotype concerning the inferiority and docility of Arabs and a justifying notion that no significant culture nor productive use of land existed in Palestine -hence the Zionist slogan, "A land without people for a people without land". Other Jews cautioned against viewing the Arabs as so insignificant. Asher Ginzberg (pen name, Achad Ha'am) cautioned Zionists in 1893 about their dismissal of both Turks and Palestinian Arabs:

'We are accustomed to believing, outside Israel, that the Arabs are all desert savages, a people like donkeys, and that they neither see nor understand what is happening around them. But that is a great mistake. We are accustomed to believe... ..that the Turkish government is so weak and so savage... ..that for a little money we could do what we like there, and that in addition we will be protected by the representatives of the European kingdoms. But that too is a great mistake.'

(source: B.Thomas: 'How Israel Was Won',1999)

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
Dancing Cow

[This has been a calming rant interruption by The Emperor Fabulous.]

Oommmm. Oommmm. Oommmmm.

Its not working.

One two three four
One two three four

How much do have to pay Transcendental Medition(tm) Inc. to get working mantra?

Will Cow work or should it be a word with no consenents.