Double Standard?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
it could be seen that you could have been beaten up, so you have to deal, right?

Maybe if you live in Jersey

[Imran Siddiqui]

Because, you jag off, you stiil helped bring life into the world, you can at the very least, make sure that life flourishes

But if you had no say if the child would be aborted or not, why should you have to pay for something that would be against your decision?

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

If he did not use contraception, or used sh*tty contraception, he gets to pay

Well if they did not use contraception, the woman can either have the child or not... she has a choice after the pregancy is revealed.

The man has NO choice after the revelation of the pregnancy. If he wants the child, but she doesn't, the child is aborted. If he doesn't want the child, but she does, then he is responsible for child support. He is at the mercy of the woman after the act of sex, because she has the only say after the sexual act.

His lack of choice is due to his relative lack of responsibility. There are so many ways that his actions can result in a kid, yet who gets stuck with having a kid and having to support a kid at a ridiculously young age?

And the woman's choice can sometimes be restricted by moral obligations.

[nationalist]

Like KH said... when you consent to sex, you don't consent to child birth... that is why we have abortions .

Pregnancy is a consequence of sex. If you don't know that, then you shouldn't be having it. Knowing this possibility makes one responsible for the outcome. I personally don't think that abortions are a legitimate answer to these responsibilities... more like a murderous cop-out

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


But if you had no say if the child would be aborted or not, why should you have to pay for something that would be against your decision?

Have a child and then you will understand. You also have no say in whether or not that child deserves a chance at a decent life. If you are ever in that situation, be a man, and pay the support. At the very least you will feel better about yourself.

[November Adam]

More like pregnancy is the primary reason for sex, not consequence.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Being a person who pays child support, I think you are all wrong. It's not a double standard. If you can't do the time, don't do the time.

And as far as, "I don't want anything to do with the child, so why should I pay?"

Because, you jag off, you stiil helped bring life into the world, you can at the very least, make sure that life flourishes.

You didn't agree to have a child, and took reasonable precautions against it. If the unexpected occurs and the girl gets pregnant then there's still a remedy. Not taking that opion is the woman's choice, but it becomes her responsibility once she does that.

Somebody slips and falls in your store, and hits her head. You run a generally safe store, but accidents do happen. Luckily, you have some medical training so you strenuously advise the person to lie down until the doctor can get there. The person shakes you off, tells you she needs to be somewhere else. You warn her again, she starts telling you that you have no right to stop her from leaving. She walks out of the store, faints, and gets hit by a truck. She now sues you not only for the damage caused directly by the fall (minor concussion) but also the injuries caused by getting hit by the truck (chronic back problems, multiple fractures, lost income for years and years). Okay?

[Imran Siddiqui]

His lack of choice is due to his relative lack of responsibility. There are so many ways that his actions can result in a kid, yet who gets stuck with having a kid and having to support a kid at a ridiculously young age?

The woman also had a lack of responsibilty, but she can get out of it.

Pregnancy is a consequence of sex. If you don't know that, then you shouldn't be having it.

Death is a consequence of drinking. If you don't know that, then you shouldn't be drinking.

If you are ever in that situation, be a man, and pay the support. At the very least you will feel better about yourself.

Oh, I will... believe me. If it ever happens to be, I'll be making my payments on time, every month, until the end of my life. But I'm not talking about what I would do under the situation.

More like pregnancy is the primary reason for sex, not consequence.

Not these days . The primary reason for sex is pleasure.

[November Adam]

I agree KH...

If society has decided that abortion is okay, then it has to be consitent in its application of responsibillities.

If the woman has an "out", then the man should too.

*** What a sad world we live in ***

[KrazyHorse]

I really don't see it as sad because I don't see the fetus as an individual human being until at least the 5th/6th month.

[November Adam]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

More like pregnancy is the primary reason for sex, not consequence.

Not these days . The primary reason for sex is pleasure.

And a such we have had to play around with definitions, so abortion is a clean "procedure", that is only affecting a "fetus", which is only a lump of cells.

Seems kinda depraved don't you think?

[KrazyHorse]

See above for response to that.

[General Ludd]

I wonder how women feel about this attitude of "who cares if you get her pregnant, she can always get an abortion"

[November Adam]

So KH, why didn't you get involved with loinburger and myself regarding what constitutes a human.

We managed to come to a consenses that BIOLOGICALLY an embryo, fetus is human.

We never continued into his ETHICAL definition of a human.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And a such we have had to play around with definitions, so abortion is a clean "procedure", that is only affecting a "fetus", which is only a lump of cells.

Seems kinda depraved don't you think?

Well, my support for abortion has nothing to do with whether it is a life or not (for the record I think it is the 4th month). The question for me is one of consent. The fetus/child is living inside the woman with her consent. If the woman removes her consent to use her body, then the fetus has to leave. After the action of birth, then the child doesn't require the consent of the mother to live within her.