Should South Africa have racial quotas for rugby?

[Havak]

I couldn't believe that scoreline when I heard it. Lets face it the Crusaders are the form side and should have already sealed the trophy by winning the League stage. You now face the prospect of the Brumbies, whose form has been indifferent at best, still being crowned "champions" but with the word having no true resonance with their actual level of acheivement. You have to feel they will beat NSW now though?

Mind you I do fancy the prospect of a Premiership-Super 12 showdown - Tigers versus Crusaders should be some game. Northern referee essential of course.

It is also with no little amusement that we read up her that Eddie Jones has written to some players 'encouraging' them to improve their standards - those rumoured to have been 'Eddied' include Smith, Harrison and Finnegan?

[finbar]

The Crusaders-Waratahs game was truly bizarre. One of those freakish combinations of circumstances. The Crusaders are obviously a great team, but not that much - by which I mean the scoreline - better than the rest. The Waratahs are obviously a better team than the result indicates. The Crusaders had a night out from the kick off; Dwyer left a number of his run-on players on the bench; Nathan Gray and Phil Waugh - missed the week before, were very badly missed; and the Waratahs' luck finally ran out and they completely lost the plot. You don't see games like that very often.

Actually, Eddie Jones rang them up. There were a few others on the list, too. The Wallaby coach plays an interesting role in and around the provincial teams. It goes back to the days of Dwyer, Macqueen, et al. Because the Wallaby coach isn't aligned with a particular team, he can - and will - stick his bib in. And it is often resented. Eddie recently suggested to Brumbies coach David Nucifora that Steve Larkham should have a spell from the pressure cooker and a stint at full back. You can imagine what sort of response that got. In fact, it was either Dwyer or Macqueen - I forget which, but it was the Wallaby coach of the time - who suggested moving Larkham from full back to 5/8 in his very early days. Thank God someone listened.

[Havak]

You don't see games like that very often.

The only similar game I can bring to mind was the ill fated decision to take an English Development squad to take on the Aussies in Brisbane in 1998. 76-0. The shame still burns in us to this day

Phoned them up? That sounds even better - poor blokes. The England coach is slightly further removed than Jones seems to be, a lot of his suggestions about where and who to play/not play are routed through the RFU. The cluibs however resent it just as much.

It's hard to picture Larkham at full back. I'm sure he would be a fairly good one but it doesn't seem the best place for someone with his instinctive reading of the game - he has a far greater effect at fly half I think?

On a side note Mr Johnson had a towering game against London Irish yesterday and got through another 80 minutes without throwing a single punch.

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Originally posted by Havak

The only similar game I can bring to mind was the ill fated decision to take an English Development squad to take on the Aussies in Brisbane in 1998. 76-0. The shame still burns in us to this day

There are many precedents. The All Blacks thumped the Wallabies 43-6 in arctic conditions in NZ in 1996 which was a record at the time. Two weeks later, the Wallabies led till the last seconds of the game and the All Blacks scored to squeak home.

It's hard to picture Larkham at full back. I'm sure he would be a fairly good one but it doesn't seem the best place for someone with his instinctive reading of the game - he has a far greater effect at fly half I think?

He started with the Brumbies at full back and a very creative one. I remember the only concern about moving him to 5/8 was his light frame - would he get blown away? Well, he's been targeted, smashed in late tackles, and while he's had his share of injuries, he's still going strong. Eddie Jones only wanted him moved back to full back to rest him (so to speak) before a very long rep season gets underway.

On a side note Mr Johnson had a towering game against London Irish yesterday and got through another 80 minutes without throwing a single punch.

Must've looked a treat playing with his fists tied behind his back.

[Havak]

I remember the only concern about moving him to 5/8 was his light frame - would he get blown away? Well, he's been targeted, smashed in late tackles, and while he's had his share of injuries, he's still going strong.

Now there's a very interesting parallel with Jonny Wilkinson there. Newcastle moved him from inside centre to Fly Half at 17 years old and exactly the same concenrs were voiced. He has come through it pretty much the same way Larkham has. You have to ask though if the extreme punishment both men are taking is shortening their careers??

Must've looked a treat playing with his fists tied behind his back

He may have looked it, but I wasn't brave enough to tell him so even with the fists tied.

the Wallabies led till the last seconds of the game and the All Blacks scored to squeak home.

This actually brought to my mind what has been the strength of the Tri-nations. You have not had any whipping boys in that tournament in the way that we have, say, Wales and Italy. It has helped maintain the standard of your games at an extremely high level, whilst the opposed training runs England get against the Azzuri or taffs help to take away their focus or 'edge' if you prefer.

I'm worried that with South Africa losing players every which way you are about to end up with a bi-polar system between Wallabies and All Blacks - what do you think about this?

Montgomery is the latest player who has said he doesn't want to be considered at national trials - which can be pretty much taken to mean he is Europe bound?

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Originally posted by Havak


Now there's a very interesting parallel with Jonny Wilkinson there. Newcastle moved him from inside centre to Fly Half at 17 years old and exactly the same concenrs were voiced. He has come through it pretty much the same way Larkham has. You have to ask though if the extreme punishment both men are taking is shortening their careers??

Quite possibly. Larkham's knee is dodgy. Though the original problem was more your usual injury than anything else. I'd've thought JW would've copped more in the centres than fly half.

This actually brought to my mind what has been the strength of the Tri-nations. You have not had any whipping boys in that tournament in the way that we have, say, Wales and Italy. It has helped maintain the standard of your games at an extremely high level, whilst the opposed training runs England get against the Azzuri or taffs help to take away their focus or 'edge' if you prefer.

I'm worried that with South Africa losing players every which way you are about to end up with a bi-polar system between Wallabies and All Blacks - what do you think about this?

Good point. The Boks will always have an edge when they play at altitude, but - unless something extraordinary happens - they're going to struggle elsewhere. The ongoing Oz-Kiwi scenario should keep the standards up, though. What amazes me over there is how well the Frogs seem to do most of the time.

Montgomery is the latest player who has said he doesn't want to be considered at national trials - which can be pretty much taken to mean he is Europe bound?

Percy won't be any huge loss. He can often be a liability. I've seen his own team's fans jeer him.

[Havak]

I'd've thought JW would've copped more in the centres than fly half.

Well he did play outside Rob Andrew when a centre so he probably never received a ball from the drop goal king.

Ah the French - a strange side indeed. We will see how good they are as they take you on in a two match series down there in June. ;-)

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see you bury them to be honest. They have had their good game for this year (against England ,the damn frog party poopers!)

Just been checking out the latest Bok signing/rumours in the various Leagues here.

Signed - Swanepoel (Worcester), Kempson (Ulster) Rossouw (London Irish), Vos (Harlequins)

Rumoured - Delport (Gloucester), Montgomery (unknown)

I know Van Straaten, Venter and Drotske are already here.

Okay some of these are like our venerable Wallabies in the premiership - players making retirement cash after their Intl days are over - but some are prime Bok candidates, Roussow for example - it has to be harming their national side considerably.

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Without a doubt. The Bok admin needs a boot up the date.

[Havak]

And check out the neutered England squad to face McQueens Barbarians Sunday week - 12 uncapped players.

Woodward's selection has been crippled by the European finals and Sevens tournament being the same weekend and a late flood of injuries. This is not an England team to trouble the Barbarians at all.

Thanks goodness I'm spending that weekend in Cardiff catching the European cup final.

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Actually, I'm in mourning. I have to go away for a week's holiday. Leaving this Saturday morning, returning Sunday of the following weekend. So, unless they show the Super 12 semis and final on free-to-air - the main platform is Fox Sports - I'll miss them!

[Havak]

So unless a Rupert Murdoch owned network suddenly decides to wave it's exclusive rights and let a free to air broadcaster show the game you are going to miss it?

My commisserations on your inevitable miss in that case.

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Actually, the S12 broadcast rights are spread between Fox Sports and the free-to-air 7 Network. Fox Sports has the rights to broadcast live, the 7 Network has replay rights, which, typically, has amounted to showing the games at about 2 o'clock the next morning. For the last few weeks, though, for some reason, the 7 Network haven't been showing anything. I can only hope and pray that they get it together again for the finals. Even at 2am!

[Havak]

Fingers crossed for you then.

Murdoch's Sky does a similar deal with the BBC here but highlights and excerpts only. Still I have the full Sky package and I can program my video so I should get to see the S12 final one way or another.

Please forgive me for personally getting more excited about my weekend on the lash in Cardiff - sorry I mean the European cup final.

[finbar]

You're forgiven. And don't forget - as of your Friday night, for a week, it's up to you to keep this thread from disappearing into the cellar.

[Havak]

I will do my level best to have a conversation with myself.