Should South Africa have racial quotas for rugby?

[Havak]

Some names to watch out for there. I had heard the good buizz around Rogers. And frankly anyone who Eales rates as the real deal I am definitely going to keep an eye on. Did the ARU finance the move of Rogers and Sailor across codes - if so that is probably where the main push to get them in the green and gold comes from?

The RFU here bank rolled Jason Robinson and Henry Paul crossing codes and whilst the former has been a revelation the latter has yet to show anything in the fifteen man game - a good sevens man though.

I actually forgot that as France visit you Ireland are popping over to NZ for a stuffing. That explains why several Kiwis didn't show for the Barbarians and also why Cullen and Lomu have flown back to training camp. Neither man looked like his past self at the weekend but of course it will be different come the tests.

McQueen has problems - injuries everywhere...

Backs Thomas Castaignede, Christophe Dominici, Stephane Glas, and Pieter Rossouw have pulled out, while forwards Naka Drotske, Todd Blackadder and Kupu Vanisi are all out of contention.

Other absentees include French lock Abdel Benazzi. Benazzi has suffered a family bereavement.

Newcastle's Doddie Weir and wing Jamie Noon, London Irish's Aussie lock Ryan Strudwick and Leicester centre Ollie Smith have been drafted in.

Of the new boys Strudwick is a solid second row who can be comfortable at number 8 and Smith has enormous potential but has been badly off form lately. Weir is way past his best and Noon talented but not quite the real deal yet (for me). having said that it is Wales and Scotland they face so there's no real chance of another defeat really.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Some names to watch out for there. I had heard the good buizz around Rogers. And frankly anyone who Eales rates as the real deal I am definitely going to keep an eye on. Did the ARU finance the move of Rogers and Sailor across codes - if so that is probably where the main push to get them in the green and gold comes from?

Yep, the ARU did the financing. Rogers is very, very talented and will earn his place by right. The push for Sailor is coming from Queensland. The parochial buggers. Sailor is a superb athlete but he's still struggling with the code. It's not yet - understandably - coming naturally. Methinks he also mightn't be the brightest soul on the park. Rogers' big advantage is that he played Rugby at school and afterwards, prior to going to RL. He's also pretty bright.

[Havak]

You can't always overcome narrow minded self interest with logic sadly. No one knows that more than a Tigers man who has to watch the RFU pick on his club time and time again as the London clubs whinge to them.

As NSW and Qland are the dual soul of the Aussie Union game (with apologies to ACT) if they push hard enough he may be fast-tracked as early as you fear. If he is not ready France are a team that will show it believe me. Paul came on in Paris and was made to look quite inept by the tenacious French backs.

[Caligastia]

Finbar-
Do you think the selection of Sailor for the Wallabies is partly motivated by the idea that it may encourage others to cross over from league to union?

[Caligastia]

Leicester, the european cup champions want to set up a match with the Super 12 champions, The Crusaders. Is this a joke? The Crusaders would destroy them!

[Havak]

A very common misconception in the SH I guess. So Canterbury are essentially the All Blacks? Tigers are essentially England. Play us up here and you will be blown away

Play us with northern officials (even French) and you will be handily put away

Play us in NZ or with those dire southern officals you are so fond of (you know, the ones who don't apply the laws of the game) and you might have a chance.

Did I rise to that Troll okay?

Okay - seriously now - there is not much of a gulf if any at all. Tigers are perfectly capable of beating Crusaders and very much capable of stuffing the Brumbies just like Canterbury did (ask Rod Kafer what he thinks of this - you might be surprised). You southern guys really need to clue up in the strength of our Leagues here - it would be an eye opener for you.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Did I rise to that Troll okay?

Okay - seriously now - there is not much of a gulf if any at all. Tigers are perfectly capable of beating Crusaders and very much capable of stuffing the Brumbies just like Canterbury did (ask Rod Kafer what he thinks of this - you might be surprised). You southern guys really need to clue up in the strength of our Leagues here - it would be an eye opener for you.

Well I would certainly like to see a match between the two. We need more North vs South type competitions, playing England once every couple of years just doesnt cut it!

We "colonials" need to put you "Guv'nors" in your place regularly otherwise you start thinking you can beat us. It must be tough to crash back to reality every couple of years like that.

Just kidding.

Actually I would rank England as second most likely to win the WC (behind the All Blacks of course!) - hows that for generous?!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Finbar-
Do you think the selection of Sailor for the Wallabies is partly motivated by the idea that it may encourage others to cross over from league to union?

No. The push for Sailor is largely media-based, and mainly Queensland media-based. Rugby's profile here is now so high that that sort of encouragement isn't needed. League is really battling. Last week's RL State of Origin match - League's game of the year, bigger than any Grand Final - only pulled 55,000 to a stadium that can seat 88,000. And there were, apparently, a lot of freebies in the 55,000. OTOH, tickets to Bledisloe Cup and Test matches are selling out within hours.

Sailor's probably in the top 5 wingers in the country, which isn't saying much when you've got 6 to choose from. Ben Tune, fit, would be well ahead of him. I think the wing selections will be inextricably linked with the full back and centres selections. You've got Chris Latham, Sterling Mortlock, Matt Burke, Matt Rogers, Andrew Walker, et all, all in the mix. Burke will probably finish up either in the centres or on one wing.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


No. The push for Sailor is largely media-based, and mainly Queensland media-based. Rugby's profile here is now so high that that sort of encouragement isn't needed. League is really battling. Last week's RL State of Origin match - League's game of the year, bigger than any Grand Final - only pulled 55,000 to a stadium that can seat 88,000. And there were, apparently, a lot of freebies in the 55,000. OTOH, tickets to Bledisloe Cup and Test matches are selling out within hours.

I dont know whether to be happy or sad. On the one hand Im happy because league *spit* is losing popularity, but on the other hand this could mean stronger aussie rugby teams!

I cant wait for the tri-nations. Or should I say the two-nations (oz and NZ)

[finbar]

John Mitchell announced a 26-man AB squad for the Tests against Italy, Fiji and Ireland. There are 15 Crusaders - Reuben Thorne as captain, replacing the injured Anton Oliver - and including Jonah Lomu and Christian Cullen, both of whom had pretty ordinary - by their standards - S12 seasons.

[Caligastia]

Yeah, apparently John Mitchel is taking a gamble on those two.

"We've got a lot of work to do there, they also understand this,"

So he is hoping that their top form will once again re-emerge.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia


I dont know whether to be happy or sad. On the one hand Im happy because league *spit* is losing popularity, but on the other hand this could mean stronger aussie rugby teams!

I cant wait for the tri-nations. Or should I say the two-nations (oz and NZ)

League has always been doomed by its ridiculously narrow base. But the diehard League types are as diehard as ever. They will never let the game die. As someone observed the other day, League will probably continue on as a totally marginalised entity.

The only current RL player I'd be interested to see playing Rugby is the Newcastle half-back Andrew Johns. He's very, very gifted - sort of a miniature Steve Larkham. OTOH, his gifts are easier to display in League with its predictable structure. Whether he has the capacity to work outside the predictable structure is the question.

[Caligastia]

For a while there league was pretty popular. I guess its more accessable to the masses, so they got hooked for a while and then got bored.

No wonder the Auckland Warriors are such a joke considering RL in NZ is probably much less popular than in aussie.

RL is doomed. Here in the states nobody plays league, its all union.

From what I have seen over here they are building a strong competitive base and I would be surprised if they werent on the level of Wales, Scotland or Ireland in about 10 years. They did well against SA last year (only losing by 20 points) even though it was a second-string side.

[finbar]

I think it was more a case of RL having a higher profile than Union in Australia. While it has always been a religion in NZ, Union in Australia struggled along in its shamateur status with next to no publicity. You only really knew about it - and appreciated it - if you were born into it. Now, with professionalism and very shrewd marketing, Union in Australia is available to the masses and they're discovering it's a much more interesting game than RL. As well, Union offers a bona fide international stage - you can watch your country battling a host of other countries - unlike in RL where the world stage consists of a hundred square miles of northern England and two states of Australia.

I've seen the Americans play. They're improvers. What they're up against, of course, is the lack of tradition and bloodlines. In fact, their soccer team's not half bad either. All we need is a decent US cricket team.

[Havak]

Well I would certainly like to see a match between the two

I agree, but it worries me how seriously it would be taken. I mean neither team will want to risk key injuries as the proposed date for this is Feb/March time - slap bang in the middle of our season where the European competition reaches the knock out stage and just before the Super-12 campaign starts. The fixture would risk being a farce of second 15s?

Maybe if we can ever get our seasons more re-structured and co-ordinated, and crucially if we can play less games up here, we might get this sorted. Being a winter sport we will always have trouble between north and south in trying such things.

I feel very similar to you - we need more games between north and south because at the moment, whilst Premiership and Super 12 are high class tounraments, they are subtly different. the more we play the more common our playing styles will become and the more consistent refereeing will be across the board?

It must be tough to crash back to reality every couple of years like that.

Otherwise referred to as the heart breaking reality of following England. So near - and yet so far. We are used to it.

Actually I would rank England as second most likely to win the WC (behind the All Blacks of course!) - hows that for generous?!

It's very generous

Sadly I cannot agree. Being in Aus I see it being between NZ and the Wallabies. Then England, France and South Africa in that order of seeding.

It's just too big an ask for England to go to Aus and win it I fear.

Mind you the day is coming when England will put one over on Aus in their own back yard - I hope I am there (and that Finbar is too of course)

By the way in the real seeding I hear Wales are above England - wtf?? They have beaten us once, flukily, in the last eight years or so!