Soviet Union's Possible Success

[Luk]

Serb - We are better, we do not drink vodka every day as you do

Hehe... You conquered us with two other Empires, and only because of our internal weakness, we were like ancient Rome which was "conquered" by barbarian Russian Hordes

It is not a XVII century when we should conquer you (in true first you were conquered in 1604 by one of ours magnat (governor of a small piece of our Empire)... We should do it in XIV-XV century when nobody know about the word "Russia" and territories of Moscow etc. were treated like Black hole almost... Unfortunatly history was not so lucky for us, and all the world has a problem with a bunch of Russian alcoholics... You Serb should be uncontent too, because if we would conquer in past territories of Sibieria, you would have a civilized friends.

Our soldiers are the best

[Serb]

Go, get your drugs man. You are a paranoid dreamer.
the history was not so lucky for us
The history can't be lucky or unlucky. If you are weaker, you will lose. You always lose to us. We always ****d your asses, losers.
Our soldiers are the best
bunch of Russian alcoholics
This bunch of Russian alcoholics allways ****d asses of "superior" Polish soldiers and always will be.

because if we would conquer in past territories of Sibieria,
Why you didn't said: "if we would conquer India or Australia"?
You remind me the "Pinky and the Brain" or some Canadians who dreaming about World's dominance and about an invasion in USA.

[el freako]

Originally posted by faded glory

I wonder why Communism is so freakin productive in Civ games. Almost impossible to outproduce a Communist foe

One of the 'beauties' of stalinism was that it found a way to extract far more resources (read taxation here) from it's citizens whilst not blunting their incentives to work harder.

[faded glory]

ya but the labor was mostly unpaid (with the exception of free food) and worked round the clock 12 hour shifts,with lots of workers in the Ural's.

True productive. Compare it to the other Communist nations...They couldnt produce ****. I guess Civ was thinking stalinism when it added Communism. World war2was the only exception. And the Soviet Union couldnt hold a candle to us, who made 2X the material we did under a democracy. This is for Civ3 forum anyway.

I just wonder when I see people in CTP PBEM switch from theocacy to Communism. And one moment have 75% more production When in real life, this was only the case under Stalin during ww2.

[el freako]

Originally posted by faded glory
And the Soviet Union couldnt hold a candle to us, who made 2X the material we did under a democracy. This is for Civ3 forum anyway.

Not actually the truth there FD.

The US only managed to double it's output in 1933-1943.

Therefore your statement assumes that the war spending stared in 1934 and that 1933 was a 'normal' year.

In fact the US war spending started in 1942 (which was only 10%-15% below the 1944 peak in GDP) and 1933 was a year at the depth of the depression over 30% below 1929.

A better test would be the rise over the period 1913-1938

In 1920 the US manufacturing output (there are no figures for GDP back that far) was some 20% above it's 1913 level, the Soviet Union's output had fallen by 87% however.
In 1937-38 the US's manufacturing output was 80% higher than in 1913, but the Soviet Union's was 750% higher.

(source: League of Nations statistical yearbook)

[faded glory]

"With a core collective of workers, Communism builds an Industrial Society fom the ground up. It exceeds all others in production. However Science suffers, and freedoms are repressed. Fascists beware!"

Production: Excellent (70%+)
Science:Bad (0+)
Gold:Bad (0+)
Military:Good
Growth: Average

Now compare to Democracy and Fascism or another of the 11 gov's

Democracy
Production: Average (15%+)
Science:Good
Gold:Good(0+)
Military:Bad
Growth: Average

Now Fascism

Gold:Bad
Growth: Average
Military:Excellent
Production: Good
Science: Average

My point? Only 1 time in history did Communism produce like this. That was under Stalin. So why do they use this example instead of the overall picture?

This is thread jacking. But the conversation appears dead.

[el freako]

eagerly participating in the threadjack...

FD,

Remember that most estimates of the USSR's and eastern europe's growth see them outpacing the west until the early 1970's.

That makes for a pretty good period of superior performance (albeit at the cost of long-term growth).

Also remember that CTP probably model's the resources available to government more than total GDP, in that communistic governments are able to muster more resources than a more liberal governmental system.

Also remember that the 'production' you are talking about only relates to a part of GDP, namely industrial production (presently this amounts to around a quarter of the USA's GDP).
Other components of GDP would be services which would probably be more akin to commerce, and that does suffer under communism

[The Vagabond]

Good points, el freako

[Heresson]

Serb, argue with Luk, but don't offend Poland as he does with Russia. Anyway, we've won a lot battles with Russia and its allies
and You can not deny it.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
Serb, argue with Luk, but don't offend Poland as he does with Russia. Anyway, we've won a lot battles with Russia and its allies
and You can not deny it.

Sorry,
I was trying to sound more sarcastic then serious. And of course I didn't want to offend Poland as country, like Luk done in his post about underintelligent, militaristic civilization of Russians alcoholics.
And I never deny that Poland was a very strong Empire and had a great history, otherwise I've tried to point on wars between our countries to show that you was strong enemy during those wars. And bring a lot of troubles for Russian Empire in the past, being a strong competitor and military foe. And I hope there will be no more hostilities between our countries in the future. I know that most of you don't like Russians much, but I hope it will change in future.
Peace?

[Saras]

Ahem.

If I may, it was the Lithuanian part of the Lithuanian - Polish Commonwealth (NOT a Polish empire), and before the treaty of Lublin, the armies of the Lithuanian Grand Duchy, that caused the largest troubles for Russian territories and later, the Muscovite state.

Learn your history, big guys

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Saras
Ahem.

If I may, it was the Lithuanian part of the Lithuanian - Polish Commonwealth (NOT a Polish empire), and before the treaty of Lublin, the armies of the Lithuanian Grand Duchy, that caused the largest troubles for Russian territories and later, the Muscovite state.

Learn your history, big guys

By the way, how come that Lithuania finished as such tiny whiney little state??? You seem to have gotten the worse end comparing to your allies Poles and other neighbours like Ukraine/Russia?

[Zoid]

I´m surpprised the Soviet Union lasted as long as it did... But eventually all dictatorships fall, you can only opress people for so long...

[Luk]

Hahah

Since XV century Lithuania was a big problem for Poland because they have initiated many wars in which Polish Army had to intervene because Lithuania could not won this wars alone... From 1440 in fact Lithuania was a part of Poland with high autonomy I say, and Union in Lublin onlyunificated and centralized our Great Empire...

Well, we won almost all wars with Russia... Russia never conquered Poland in military way... Even in 1920 when our polish army was newly formed and poor equiped we kicked Russian asses

[Saras]

Luk, if that's what they teach at your high schools, then the writers should stops smoking whatever they are smoking.