Soviet Union's Possible Success

[David Floyd]

Property and a sense of ownership is, IMO, inherent in human nature. If someone comes up, hits you on the head with a rock, and steals your wheel. you're gonna be pissed. Why? Because it's yours.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I don't think I can defend that.

Trotsky's plan came much later, during the final faction fight between the worker faction (led by Trotsky), the peasant faction (led by Bukharin), and the bureaucratic faction, (led by Stalin). Seeing Trtosky's plan as a threat politicaly, the peasants and the bureaucrats allied, crushed the workers faction, then the bureaucrats turned on the peasants.

It was a revolution

what was done was neccesary or appeared neccesary

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Which, IMO, is the end result of any communism attempt, because of human nature. Communism is against human nature, in general, and doomed to fail. IMO of course

look at how many times democracy failed

it dose not mean that democracy is not worth while to work towards

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Which, IMO, is the end result of any communism attempt, because of human nature. Communism is against human nature, in general, and doomed to fail. IMO of course

look at how many times democracy failed

it dose not mean that democracy is not worth while to work towards

Jon Miller
(damn 30 sec rule)

[David Floyd]

look at how many times democracy failed

it dose not mean that democracy is not worth while to work towards

When did I voice support for democracy?

[Jon Miller]

yes, you have not

but it is usually included with the talk about property rights of individuals

Jon Miller

[David Floyd]

No, democracies can be expected to have less property rights than a properly functioning republic - poor people will usually, hypocritically, seek to vote away the wealth of others. This is an example of greed, another part of human nature. It's hypocritical because the poor think the rich owe them something and not vice versa - ie they're stupid.

[Jon Miller]

the rich steal from the poortake the poors work and enslave them in return

not the other way arround

the rich

Jon Miller

[Sava]

Originally posted by David Floyd
No, democracies can be expected to have less property rights than a properly functioning republic - poor people will usually, hypocritically, seek to vote away the wealth of others. This is an example of greed, another part of human nature. It's hypocritical because the poor think the rich owe them something and not vice versa - ie they're stupid.

David please. Calling poor people greedy really makes you look like more of an idiot. "The wealth of others" that you speak of was acquired by fleecing innocent people out of their money. While not all rich corporations are evil, most of them are. The oil companies engage in parallel pricing (not a monopoly, just all the oil buddies getting together and agreeing on charging higher prices... it must be great, not having to worry about demand). Health care companies profit from disease. The whole communications industry is just crap. I can't go on, the vein in my head is going to burst.

Communism doesn't work either, so don't think I'm supporting you red bastards. I just have to debunk this extreme conservative.

[chequita guevara]

Hah hah, you support us.

[David Floyd]

David please. Calling poor people greedy really makes you look like more of an idiot.

Anyone who tries to force another to give their wealth to him is greedy, in my book.

"The wealth of others" that you speak of was acquired by fleecing innocent people out of their money.

Bull****. The wage labor system is and has always been based on consent and voluntary contracts.

While not all rich corporations are evil, most of them are. The oil companies engage in parallel pricing (not a monopoly, just all the oil buddies getting together and agreeing on charging higher prices... it must be great, not having to worry about demand).

First off, that isn't exactly true, but even if it were, how is this wrong?

Health care companies profit from disease.

Also known as being employed to make sick people well. You don't like it, don't go to the doctor.

The whole communications industry is just crap. I can't go on, the vein in my head is going to burst.

Fine, don't buy a telephone, exert consumer pressure, or start your own company.

[Sava]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Anyone who tries to force another to give their wealth to him is greedy, in my book.

Then by logic, you think capitalism is wrong because trade is giving wealth to someone for material things.

Bull****. The wage labor system is and has always been based on consent and voluntary contracts.

Do you live in the Bizarro world? It has been based on the threat of being homeless and starving to death.

First off, that isn't exactly true, but even if it were, how is this wrong?

If you ever decide to pick up a newspaper, you would know that the Senate has been investigating the oil price gouging of the summer of 2001. By your definition, taking other people's wealth is greed, and greed is wrong.

Also known as being employed to make sick people well. You don't like it, don't go to the doctor.

Why do you think drug companies advertise on TV? You can't go to the store and just buy prescription drugs. Doctors know what medicines are right for you, the companies are making people pester doctors for certain medications. My mom has worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 25 years.

Fine, don't buy a telephone, exert consumer pressure, or start your own company.

That's the whole point David. Communication has become a necessity. Not just a luxury service. You can become a hermit, or be forced to pay the Comm industry who engages in the same parallel pricing as the oil companies. The whole Comm industry went to sh!t when the government broke up AT&T.

I'd much rather have a monopoly company who didn't need to worry about competition running things than a bunch of greedy unethical people who fleece America.

Eventually, the great corporate funded Democracy will fall. I just hope it happens in my lifetimes so I can point and laugh at all the contradictory, ignorant right wingers who don't see the system for what it is.

[chequita guevara]

He sure sounds like a commie.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Sava

Then by logic, you think capitalism is wrong because trade is giving wealth to someone for material things.

Please pay attntion to the word "force" used by DF. Trade is voluntary, you know.

Do you live in the Bizarro world? It has been based on the threat of being homeless and starving to death.

Well, starvation and homelessness are natural phenomenon that are caused by anumber of factors. And arguments by Americans about threat of starvation are ridiculous - even in Lithuania with its USD 3000 / capita GDP no one really starves.

How your own leftwingers arrive at the US hunger statistics is completely strange to me. Perhaps your homeless are dietary freaks?

If you ever decide to pick up a newspaper, you would know that the Senate has been investigating the oil price gouging of the summer of 2001. By your definition, taking other people's wealth is greed, and greed is wrong.

Again, no one forces you to buy gas. And actually greed is good . It makes things happen.

Why do you think drug companies advertise on TV? You can't go to the store and just buy prescription drugs. Doctors know what medicines are right for you, the companies are making people pester doctors for certain medications. My mom has worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 25 years.

I sit on a board of a pharmaceutical comany, so I also can claim some knowledge about the pharma industry - your arguments are bull****, advertsing is just advertising, if you trust TV more than your doctor you should go and seea different doctor

That's the whole point David. Communication has become a necessity. Not just a luxury service. You can become a hermit, or be forced to pay the Comm industry who engages in the same parallel pricing as the oil companies. The whole Comm industry went to sh!t when the government broke up AT&T.

Huh? Parralel pricing is possible only in the short term. Believe me, I've tried After a while, some of the conspirators get greedy and cut prices just a little and then competition starts all over again.

I'd much rather have a monopoly company who didn't need to worry about competition running things than a bunch of greedy unethical people who fleece America.

I almost fainted.

Eventually, the great corporate funded Democracy will fall. I just hope it happens in my lifetimes so I can point and laugh at all the contradictory, ignorant right wingers who don't see the system for what it is.

As opposed to enlightened visionaries like you?

[morb]

Originally posted by Serb

V konec yanki zapizdelis.

hahaha!

serb, you rule!