Bush Speaks Out On The Mid-East Crises

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Sava


America imports 52 percent of its oil... 42 percent from the Middle East. I think a 42 percent cut in oil would cause problems.

Incorrect.

Second, you know two things about Reagan's effect on American economics, jack and ****, and jack left town.

Incorrect.

Reagan busted unions which preserve workers rights and fair wages. Sure he created more jobs, but he did away with higher paying jobs and created more lower paying jobs.

Incorrect. He created 14 million stable, and high paying jobs. Evidence will be found at the end of this post by the trustful CATO institute.

Stupid judgements? I am minoring in political science and economics at DePaul University in Illinois. I just finished a 20 page dissertation on the US Economy from 1975-2000. You look like you are about 16 or 17 years old. I doubt you know anything except from what you see on TV.

I have gotten a 5 on an AP Economics Mock Exam. And am going to 5 5 Page Essays in Economics. IN HIGH SCHOOL! And based on my ****ing age I cannot make judgements on my own.

My suggestion... get and education, then flame people on online message boards AFTER you know what it is you are talking about.

You know **** about what you are talking about. I trust the CATO institute over some smart ass liberal.

Alzheimers in the 90's? Apparantly you never saw any of Reagan's TV addresses to the nation. Half the time he couldn't remember to read the cue cards and he trailed off on some scewed tangent topic. The guy was an invalid. He was a puppet for the Republican party so they could exert their "rich get richer" agenda.

http://www.c-span.org/transition2001/archival.asp

You just piss me off. I watched his inaugural address sixty times. He has nothing impaired.

And you are a puppet for the democratic party, to make everybody in this country lose their income.

Evidence provided at the end of the post by the respectful CATO institute.

Between 1981 and 1989, the annual cost of living in the US went from about $26,000 to $35,000, while the average mean income decreased from $32,000 to $30,000. Reagan helped the top 1% of the population get richer. BECAUSE THAT'S WHO REPUBLICANS REPRESENT!

WRONG AGAIN!



So where exactly did you pull your stats out of? Your ass?



http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261.html (source)

The gains in incomes of all income groups is all the more impressive when we examine data on income mobility. Tens of millions of Americans moved up the income scale in the 1980s--an economic fact that is obscured when only the static income quintile data from the start of the decade to the end are examined. Figure 12 shows that 86 percent of households that were in the poorest income quintile in 1980 had moved up the economic ladder to a higher income quintile by 1990. Incredibly, a poor household in 1980 was more likely to have moved all the way up to the richest income quintile by 1990 (15 percent) than to still be in the poorest quintile (14 percent).

Learn up, before saying something idiotic.

[Evil_Eric_4]

This post is directed to Eli.

Chill man-Our prez is on your side.
Politics forced him into this speach (which was very good IMO-and of course he didnt write it but he gave the outline to a speachwriter and then he proofread it-THEN he gave it )

In all it was a pro Isreal speech with most of the onus of the current situation being placed on the PA and in particular Arafat.

To be fair if the Israeli gov. had told us to leave Afg. after a week we would have said ***K OFF too.

I too am very frustrated with the double standard Bush seems to be embracing.
A TERRORIST IS A TERRORIST IS A TERRORIST.

Oh and BTW -yes Israel did offer unconditional support for us following 9\11 and I for one apreciated it .
Furthermore we should have accepted it and dumped all these Arab "allies" who will someday be our enemies anyway.
Think about it --A joint US- Israeli operation.We could clean up the Middle East once and for all.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


It doesn't matter what Israel thinks... when the leader of the most powerful nation in the world, and supplier of 90% of the Israeli Military weaponry wants Israel to leave, IT WILL LEAVE. There is no talk about it.

Bull**** - Bush doesn't have the balls to go into a full on confrontation with Sharon, because of the simple fact that US strategic interests are served by having Israel in the mideast as a US ally. Bush wants to give himself some semblence of maneuvering room in the arab world by not overtly supporting every move the Israelis make, but a dead terrorist is a dead terrorist.

Fine, you can ignore the US and then this time become part of Syria and Egypt.

you are so when you get There is no way in hell that any combination of arab armies would overrun Israel - the question, as always, is how much would the arabs lose, how fast?

The most that the arabs could do, if they didn't value their existence, would be to escalate to WMD's, and then the **** would really hit the fan - rhetoric aside, no arab leader, even Saddam Hussein, is that nuts.

You better respect the US damn it, because if it weren't for them, you wouldn't of won any of those wars.

bull****. The only thing which limited the extent of Israeli victory was time and logistics. In 48 more hours, if that, Arik Sharon would have been driving through downtown Cairo, and the Egyptians knew it.

And Israel knows better than to listen to the hand-wringers - every Arab-Israeli war, when the UN has called for cease-fires, it has only been after the arabs ****ed up and the Israelis went over to the offensive.

Bush will "speak out", to try to maintain a sliver of credibility with moslem "ally" governments whose cooperation we want. That's about as far as it will go.

[Eli]

Siro, get on ICQ.

Edit : Oops, it's MtG. The avatar confused me.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Bull**** - Bush doesn't have the balls to go into a full on confrontation with Sharon, because of the simple fact that US strategic interests are served by having Israel in the mideast as a US ally. Bush wants to give himself some semblence of maneuvering room in the arab world by not overtly supporting every move the Israelis make, but a dead terrorist is a dead terrorist.

Well then they will do it unlaterially without the support Europe. Sharon can kiss whatever little support he had from Europe goodby. I am sick and ****ing tired of Arafat, and Sharon because they are idiots who cannot live together. It is pathetic! Even in Argentina, there are thousands of jews who live right next to arabs.

you are so when you get

I am always cute, and even moreso when I get frustrated.

There is no way in hell that any combination of arab armies would overrun Israel - the question, as always, is how much would the arabs lose, how fast?

I was disputing that?

The most that the arabs could do, if they didn't value their existence, would be to escalate to WMD's, and then the **** would really hit the fan - rhetoric aside, no arab leader, even Saddam Hussein, is that nuts.

I dunno, Saddam Hussein is out of his mind. He is paying suicide bombers $25k to blow the hell out of civilians. That is what I can't stand.

I am not taking any ****ing sides in this dispute, because I dislike both sides and why they are doing what they are doing.

bull****. The only thing which limited the extent of Israeli victory was time and logistics. In 48 more hours, if that, Arik Sharon would have been driving through downtown Cairo, and the Egyptians knew it.

AND I WAS DISPUTING THAT? NO I WAS NOT DAMN IT!

And Israel knows better than to listen to the hand-wringers - every Arab-Israeli war, when the UN has called for cease-fires, it has only been after the arabs ****ed up and the Israelis went over to the offensive.

The UN royally ****ed up in 1947.

Bush will "speak out", to try to maintain a sliver of credibility with moslem "ally" governments whose cooperation we want. That's about as far as it will go.

And Bush needs the support of these governments, and the Israelis pissing them off will not accomplish anything.

This is like 1982 repeating itself. A big disaster after Begin refused to pull out of Lebanon.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Eli
Siro, get on ICQ.

Edit : Oops, it's MtG. The avatar confused me.

Yeah - I asked Siro to send me some avatar files.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Gian, I bet we could pull off for another week.

I bet IDF is being told to speed up... perhaps we'll need more troops

Anyway, we're tired of listening to other people's whims.

It's not americans or turks or egyptians being blown up.

I am terribly angry about the homicide bombings against Israel, but I must remind you - it IS also Americans being blown up. 3000 on 9/11. And we are still worried about a follow-up, which could come any day. I know this wont satisfy, since you are dealing with death every day, and huge in numbers for a small country. But you must realize that American foreign policy is now also a matter of life or death, and Americans approach it with that seriousness. This is both good for you and not good, when our interests differ. The american administration will pursue American interests, as your govt will pursue Israeli interests.

And btw, i presume the IDF was smart enough going in, to have plans for different lengths of allotted time, and sequenced actions accordingly. Note that Gaza was left for last - most (all?) recent homicide bombings have come from the west bank, and it is the west bank where the oppurtunity to run from city to city is greatest, requiring a longer operation than past israeli raids. I think Gaza was left for last with just this in mind.

LOTM

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


Well then they will do it unlaterially without the support Europe. Sharon can kiss whatever little support he had from Europe goodby. I am sick and ****ing tired of Arafat, and Sharon because they are idiots who cannot live together. It is pathetic!

Gian, arafat has been failing to keep his commitments since Oslo. The israeli PM's in that time have been Rabin, Peres, Netanyahu, Barak and Sharon. 5 different Israeli PM's, all of whom are considered "unjust oppressors" by the Israel haters here. The personality of Sharon really doesnt make much difference right now. As long as the homicide bombers are killing Israelis every day, it wont matter who the PM in Israel is.

LOTM

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by lord of the mark



Gian, arafat has been failing to keep his commitments since Oslo. The israeli PM's in that time have been Rabin, Peres, Netanyahu, Barak and Sharon. 5 different Israeli PM's, all of whom are considered "unjust oppressors" by the Israel haters here. The personality of Sharon really doesnt make much difference right now. As long as the homicide bombers are killing Israelis every day, it wont matter who the PM in Israel is.

LOTM

My sig says I am neutral. So again I am not taking sides. I am criticising both Palestinian Leader Yassir Arafat and Israel evenly. I don't care about Sharon. This situation just has to be resolved peacefully because there is no way either side could win. The only way this would work is if Israel would kill every last Palestinian, and that won't happen.

[Lonestar]

America imports 10, yes 10 percent of it's oil from the Middle east.

52% comes from gold ol' Texas Tea and Alaskan Gold. 10% Mexico. 10% Venezuela. 10% Nigeria. and 8% "Other".

Back on track here.


It saddens me that of all the Muslim countries in the world, the only two who had the balls to come out and call the Palestinian suicide bombers terrorists were Bosnia, and surprisingly Malaysia. Not even Albania could do us the honor of calling it what it is...terrorism.


I'm glad to see that Bush's speach yesterday boiled down to "Hey you two! I don't care who started it, knock that shcit off!"

Which is, after all, true.

Knock it off!

In other news, Powell won't be visiting Israel until the end of next week. Seems to me Bush is giving Sharon a week to screw around in the West Bank and (hopefully) nab as many thugs as possible.

[Eli]

Gaza was left to the end because :
The Israeli takeover of the Pal cities start with Israeli Sayarot entering them, clearing the way for the tanks and APCs and then the Golani and Nahal infantry enter for a house to house searching. After the main job is done, they send in the reservniks to hold the city and continue with the less complicated house to house searches.
That's why we've been entering the cities one after another. We need the Sayarot and the young infantry combatants.

Gaza will be much more dangerous, bloody and complicated than every West Bank city. It's the root of the Palestinian terrorism. This is the place where you have the Hamas leaders and engineers, the Kassam 2 manufacturies etc. And since the refugee camps in Gaza can be a potential death trap because of their huge population density we keep the possible complication to the end, so that the soldiers are more trained and to prevent an early ending of the operation due to some bloody scenario a-la Invei Zaam.

[Bereta_Eder]

Fortunately our protests have been heard and the US is going to tell its doggie to pull the beasts out.

Palestine saved, once more.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Fortunately our protests have been heard and the US is going to tell its doggie to pull the beasts out.

Palestine saved, once more.

Smug, self-congratulatory and utterly delusional. Palestine saved, huh? Since your criticism is so powerful, why don't you also demand that the Palestinian terror groups stop killing innocent civilians? That, in fact, would probably do more to save Palestine. Frankly, without suicide bombing, a helluva lot more Americans would be sympathetic to the Palestinians. Their reliance on such tactics have alienated some of the people who could help them most.

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Arrian
Since your criticism is so powerful, why don't you also demand that the Palestinian terror groups stop killing innocent civilians?

Jews are evil and must be destroyed. [/paiktis22]

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Arrian
Since your criticism is so powerful, why don't you also demand that the Palestinian terror groups stop killing innocent civilians?

Won't happen untill Palestine is free, a state with full rights.
So live with it.
As long as this does not happen US and Israel will suffer.

Reality.