Bush Speaks Out On The Mid-East Crises

[The Mad Monk]

Eli, it appeared to me that Bush was considerably softer on Israel than the Palestinians and other Arab groups. In fact, I would say he given Israel his blessing without appearing to do so; everything that he says Israel must do is set in an undefined future, while the other things he said are couched in requests--which, in many cases are so nebulous that Israel could in fact do very little and say that they are complying. Even the request were couched in terms that, for all intents and purposes, justifies everything Israel has done up to this point .







Oh...a fluke is a flatfish, native to many of the bays and inlets of North America. Like a flounder.

[Az]

Originally posted by DetroitDave
Your civilian casualty count is a fluke compared to past actions of so-called self defense. I also like what you consider "effective" - pushing back borders against an already oppressed peoples and rolling tanks up to the Nativity on the 2000 th anniversary of Jesus' death.

Way to go. Rock on!

2000th anniversary?

How old was he when he died ? 2 years old?

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Eli
**** off. We were the only country who were ready to help you in everything, unconditionally and immediately after September 11th. After ruining Afghanistan and killing hundreds of innocents this ****ing chimp will not tell us how to protect our citizens.

Perhaps he feels our $4 billion per year in aid gives him the right to tell you what to do. If you don't want him to fell that way, politely refuse the aid and go your own way. I'd be fine with that. It never ceases to amaze me that when the U.S. does/says something that is less than totally 100% pro-Israeli, Israelis respond like Eli did to this speech. Sorry, Eli, we may be your ally (and a damned good one, I think), but we aren't your doormat. Occasionally, our government may actually (gasp) disagree with something your does. And even (imagine it!) say it out loud.

I thought that speech was rather good. There was some balance there. Of course he didn't write it - no U.S. president actually writes his own speeches anymore. Such is the way with politicians.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Eli
**** off. We were the only country who were ready to help you in everything, unconditionally and immediately after September 11th. After ruining Afghanistan and killing hundreds of innocents this ****ing chimp will not tell us how to protect our citizens.

Chill Eli. Think!!!!!

Some US statement like this was inevitable. The US is building towards action that will lead to major changes in the Middle East. In that context the Bush could not stay aloof.

Now read closely. Bush makes it clear that Arafat is responsible for the situation in which he finds himself, and that he must stop terror. He faults Arafats leadership, distinguishing him from the Palestinian people. IF Arafat is let off the hook, and then again promotes terror, Bush, having said these things, will be backed into a corner, a corner not good for Arafat.

Bush insists on end to violence now, and acceptance of the Tenet and Mitchell plans - this is the prior condition for substantive peace negotiations, rather than the other way around.

Bush specifically mentions Iranian and Syrian support for terror, and warns them away. Given the US forces currently on the move around the world, this is no idle warning.


The test is how Bush follows up. the arabs and europeans demanded that Bush restrain Israel. He has done so, but at the same time has staked his own and America's prestige on his insistence that the arabs stop terrorism. If they do not, Bush now CANNOT look the other way.

And i must remind you that i am no personal fan of GW Bush. I voted against him in 2000, and expect to do so again in 2004. But this was a GOOD speech.

LOTM

[Eli]

Look, I understand the basic logic behind this speech and I understand that this is a favorable speech to Israel but I just hate this hypocrisy when countries who suffered from terrorism and promised a global war against it criticize Israel and demand restaint and negotiations with the man who served an example for UBL.

[Giancarlo]

I am a staunch supporter of Bush, and at the same time am sick and damn tired of Sharon. I see the same old crap. I am even more sick and damn tired of Arafat. It is like they can never live together...

And damn it, Israel you pissed off Turkey. That is it. Bush had to make this speech. First it was Jordan, then Egypt, and now Turkey that strongly criticized Israel. Bush had no choice but to join Egypt's and Turkey's opinion on this crisis.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Eli

The Israelies have no room to talk about moral highground.

Our moral highground is just as arguable as yours.

.

ROTF

LOL LOL



exactly!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian


I thought that speech was rather good. There was some balance there. Of course he didn't write it - no U.S. president actually writes his own speeches anymore. Such is the way with politicians.

-Arrian

What this shows, is that Israelis, like Europeans and others, dont really understand the post 9/11 mood in America. They(or at least some of them) look back to past American waffling, and dont believe Bush will really hold Arafat to account, or that the US will really take measures that will change the nature of the Middle East. They dont understand the new US resolve - a resolve which is not about George Bush in particular, but is a widespread change in US attitude toward the world. You and I know that things are different - that they'll never be the same - not wrt Iran, Iraq, Korea, Hamas, Afganistan, etc. I'm not sure anyone who's not American can get it - theres too much - the American attitude towards patriotism, towards American exceptionalism, towards our geographic position, etc. All of which play a role in our reactions to 9/11 and international politics. The outside world seems to think we're either warmongers thirsting for revenge or softies waiting to give up when it gets rough. the Europeans are nervous about us being warmongers - the Israelis (and probably the Kuwaits and their neighbors, more privately) are nervous about our being softies. No words here can change that, only our actions can.

LOTM

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Eli
Look, I understand the basic logic behind this speech and I understand that this is a favorable speech to Israel but I just hate this hypocrisy when countries who suffered from terrorism and promised a global war against it criticize Israel and demand restaint and negotiations with the man who served an example for UBL.

Do not attempt to calm a man when he has his dead is in front of him - or something like that - from Pirke Avot, I think. I understand how you feel. I understand the outrage. I hope my posts have shown how I feel it.

But this man does not deserve our outrage now. If you cant stand hypocritical words, you must turn away from international affairs. The US, strong though we are, is not strong enough to speak truth without weighing the consequences. The test will be in results. I do not think we have long to wait.


LOTM

[Sirotnikov]

From a pragmatic and optimistic point of view, Bush's speech was very good.

The only thing is, we need 4 more weeks to get results.

If we stop now, NOTHING will be done.

If we stop now, it's as if we've done NOTHING.



From my personal point of view - I'm not longer a supporter of peace or of the peace process.

The arabs have not accepted the legitimacy of Israel and are using steps to deligitimize and overpower it.

I don't know what to do now, since I see no way to avoid it, but I'm thinking aobut it.

Whomever wishes, should read my lengthy quotes in the "Barak Proposals" forum.

I'm informing you that I will bump that everyday, until everyone has read these stories.

[Giancarlo]

Sorry Siro, but fours weeks will not be possible. I think Bush knows this and Sharon knows this. Four more weeks could intensify Turkish and Egyptian Criticism too, and US support would most likely be cut off.

Bush laid down the lines:

1) Israeli Troops need to pull out
2) A ceasefire must be accepted, with no conditons
3) All suicide bombings must end

You know Siro, you country made a major mistake pissing off Egypt and Turkey, two of the only arab countries that recognize Israel. I am sick and tired of your country's operations, and the inept Arafat leadership aswell.

But Israel must pull out or there could be a major dispute that Turkey and Egypt might even get involved, and that is not good. If Turkey and Egypt do, Israel's economy could be severely hurt.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Eli
**** off. We were the only country who were ready to help you in everything, unconditionally and immediately after September 11th. After ruining Afghanistan and killing hundreds of innocents this ****ing chimp will not tell us how to protect our citizens.

Tut tut. The US doesn't like to hear such statements coming from its stoolies.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Tut tut. The US doesn't like to hear such statements coming from its stoolies.

We prefer the term Vassal or Client State.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


We prefer the term Vassal or Client State.

\


Sounds so much more professional

[Sirotnikov]

Gian, I bet we could pull off for another week.

I bet IDF is being told to speed up... perhaps we'll need more troops

Anyway, we're tired of listening to other people's whims.

It's not americans or turks or egyptians being blown up.