Galileo -- Why?

[Saint Marcus]

As long as europe doesnt FORCE airplanes and ships entering there waters to use it,instead of GPS.

Won't be a problem. Galileo is designed to work with GPS systems as well, thus current GPS systems on boats and ships won't have to be upgraded to be able to work with Galileo.

[Roland]

"In short, I don't know, since it's impossible to put the US in Europe's shoes. The US has the political will to spend $400 billion+ on defense and the tools we use are mainly to project power (air, sea)."

Cuuuuute!

"The US is bound to Europe by the NATO alliance."

Nope. And NATO is toast.

"An alternative system could be built by Europe at any time they feel threatened, within a fairly tight timeframe."

We just do not feel comfortable with the only system (apart from some russian stuff) in the hands of a hostile entity.

"Lastly, if Europe were looking out for its own security, it might spend that $3 billion to innovate GPS tech within within its military doctrine."


With the satellites under the control of the US NS system ? LOL!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Roland
We just do not feel comfortable with the only system (apart from some russian stuff) in the hands of a hostile entity.

As its quite clear that this system isn't being built with economic concerns in mind, in what way is the US hostile to Europe's high political interests?

[faded glory]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus


Won't be a problem. Galileo is designed to work with GPS systems as well, thus current GPS systems on boats and ships won't have to be upgraded to be able to work with Galileo.

Then I dont see why there is a fuss from our side of the pond. GPS is free. Galileo I take it ; will also be free of charge. So it isnt really any kind of competetion or money to be made here. Maybe just to devoloping a 2nd system to make us yanks jealous?




btw Russia ; does not have an equivlant GPS.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yeah I mean really. Why should we be depended on the US when it is obviously a bad choice?

Galileo it is

Besides from what I gather the main objection the US has is that Galileo would not be controlled by Washington....

If it can jamm it/destroy it so easily (as DanS claims) then why the fuzz?


BTW I think close cooperation with the Russians for exchange of information is long overdue. It will help both sides.

[faded glory]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


As its quite clear that this system isn't being built with economic concerns in mind, in what way is the US hostile to Europe's high political interests?

GPS has system hasnt generated any revenue for anybody. How could a GPS system know how to Jam certain users on earth?

[Paul Hanson]

A quick question for the Americans: Why would you, as individuals, have a problem with Galileo? Some of you seem to be downplaying the idea as a bad one, but I can't quite work out why.

[KrazyHorse]

faded

A GPS system works by constantly broadcasting the precise time. By comparing 3+ times with each other a small computer chip in your GPS receiver can deterimine its location by comparing the differences between lightspeed delay on the signals. The US GPS system broadcasts two datastreams: 1 for civilian/foreign militaries, 1 for its own military. The broadcast for its own military is encrypted (certainly under a varying coding), and is more precise (by a factor of 10) than the civilian broadcast (probably also encrypted for legal reasons). By shutting down the civilian broadcast it can restrict use of GPS to its own troops. GPS has made money; IIRC, you must pay a license fee to the US military on every GPS system you build.

EDIT: You could build a pirate GPS fairly easily, but if you tried to sell them in any quantity you'd probably find yourself staring down the barrels of a fairly painful lawsuit.

[faded glory]

thanks KH


btw OT, but sort of relevant a GPS System from a dead US soldier in Somali was found in a Afghan cave. It still worked. So much for knowin how to jam the things.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by faded glory
thanks KH


btw OT, but sort of relevant a GPS System from a dead US soldier in Somali was found in a Afghan cave. It still worked. So much for knowin how to jam the things.

Where'd you hear this?

[faded glory]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Where'd you hear this?

Here off AOL news.

Possible al Qaeda-Somalia link found in Afghan cave

By Charles Aldinger


WASHINGTON, March 20 (Reuters) - In a possible long-range link to al Qaeda, U.S. troops searching an icy Afghan cave this week found a global positioning receiver taken from a decorated U.S. soldier killed in Somalia in 1993, the Pentagon said on Wednesday.

The name of Master Sgt. Gary Gordon, one of 18 Army special forces troops killed in a firefight with rebels in Mogadishu nine years ago, was found on both the satellite receiver and a pouch that it was in, defense officials told reporters.

Pentagon officials have long suspected that the deaths of the Americans in Somalia, detailed in the recent movie "Black Hawk Down," was planned by supporters of fugitive al Qaeda guerrilla leader Osama bin Laden.

Gordon, of Lincoln, Maine, was one of two U.S. soldiers posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor - the nation's highest military award - after the Mogadishu action. He was 33 when he died.

Air Force Brig. Gen. John Rosa told reporters at a Pentagon briefing that the name "G. Gordon" was on the hand-held global positioning device, which allows the person holding it to determine his exact position within yards (metres).

The device was found in a cave high in Afghanistan's eastern mountains near Gardez, where U.S.-led forces this month attacked what were believed to be hundreds of regrouping al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in the five-month-old Afghan war.

"That's a good question - one we've been doing some thought about," Rosa replied when asked if the device could establish a link between al Qaeda in Somalia and in Afghanistan.

AN OBVIOUS TIE?

"We've said all along that we suspected Al Qaeda of being a worldwide network," he said. "In fact, this piece we currently think originated from Somalia will obviously tie - could obviously tie - al Qaeda to Somalia."

But he also said that the device could have been stolen in Somalia, sold on the black market and then somehow ended up in Afghanistan, where thousands of anti-Western al Qaeda fighters were trained in guerrilla camps.

Rosa, a senior operations officer on the U.S. military's Joint Staff, said the receiver was a "civilianized" version of such devices that are now commonly carried by U.S. troops.

On Oct. 3, 1993, when Gordon was killed, the military did not have many such devices. But those used at the time by hunters and boaters to determine their positions were often bought by American troops.

"Back in '93, the units were a little bit bigger and more cumbersome," the general said.

"And I remember a lot of our special forces folks would buy the off-the-shelf ones, the small ones."

He said he thought the device found in Afghanistan was turned on but did not know if it was working.

"It would help in command-and-control," Rosa said. "It gives your exact elevation and location. So for command and control, it would be able to help them."

Rosa and Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke said that Gordon's family had been notifed that the device was found.

Gordon and Army Sgt. First Class Randall Shughart, 35, of Lincoln, Nebraska, were posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for bravery in connection with the Mogadishu action, one of the worst military incidents involving U.S. troops since the Vietnam War.

14:43 03-20-02

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[KrazyHorse]

Ah.

Rosa, a senior operations officer on the U.S. military's Joint Staff, said the receiver was a "civilianized" version of such devices that are now commonly carried by U.S. troops

He said he thought the device found in Afghanistan was turned on but did not know if it was working

I was sort of skeptical at first because I thought you were saying that a military version of a GPS receiver had been found and was able to report its position. The secret wouldn't really remain a secret for very long if that was the case, now would it?

Secondly, I doubt it was worthwhile to jam civilian GPS in the caves, and it certainly wouldn't be for all of Afghanistan. Reporters tend to rely on it.

[faded glory]

Anyway.I dont see a big deal. It costs alot to maintain GPS. So if Europe wants to create an alteranative system that is integrated with GPS. All the more better.


Like I said. You probably wont make a dime of Galileo.

[DanS]

"France (IIRC, the biggest military spender in the EU) is not in NATO. France is also the strongest EU-member wrt the aerospace industry."

They are a political member of NATO and participate in most NATO actions, including Afghanistan. We would be equally on the hook to defend France by providing her the necessary tools, including GPS, as we would with Germany.

"I honestly see NATO dissolving (or at least weakening) over the next few decades. It might be a friendly departure, but the reason for its existence no longer exists. Europe seems to be attempting to reassert itself militarily, the US seems tired with having to explain itself to soft Europeans when it's the world's unquestioned superpower. You're left with a polarisation of the NATO partners, and without a serious outside threat to maintain cohesiveness people will just get fed up."

While the eventual breakup of NATO is certainly possible, there is no indication that it is imminent. So you still have a trade-off going on here. Why doesn't Europe spend the money on something innovative upon which the US will rely? Surprise us!

"but that we want to become less dependent on the US"

MarkL: Well, allies rely on each other. The US relies on Europe politically, if not always militarily.

"Why would you, as individuals, have a problem with Galileo? Some of you seem to be downplaying the idea as a bad one, but I can't quite work out why."

Paul: Because Galileo represents an unfair subsidy to the European handset and other equipment makers.

"We just do not feel comfortable with the only system (apart from some russian stuff) in the hands of a hostile entity."

Roland: Just get back from the pub?

[Lefty Scaevola]

Beside the obvious advantages of redundency for a very important system, and haveing there own control, This Euro systems appears to be more adaptable to consumer uses and may spur competetion for consumer applications.