Car Bomb in Jerusalem - Tens of casualties

[Ming]

Originally posted by laurentius
Nice try dalgetti, colour my statement even more and you'll paint me as Saddam Husseins right hand.

Hmmm... I thought it was a pretty good discription of what you said... All your backpedaling now doesn't change what you posted, or what you meant when you posted it.

[Giancarlo]

Read the book "Bias"... it is by somebody who used to work for CBS... I think... these news networks are terrible. I watch CNN for laughs. They think they got the solution for everything.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0895261901/qid=1015101354/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_67_1/103-2316533-6547044

I condemn all deaths, whether they be Israeli or Palestinian. And Sadat once said "Please let there be no more war between Arabs and Israelis"... if he didn't get assassinated he would of got this whole thing settled.

[laurentius]

Maybe we shouldnt have these ME-discussion at all anymore. There cant be real discussion. there are only Israelies and the rest of the world, no palestinians around. as I try to say something I got bashed and called an evil biggot, stupid westerner who knows nothing about anything. israelians can always say "hey I only have to look out of my window and I see it happening". What can we say? We are not there to witness is so we are not equal to disagree with you. As long as we dont have a palestinian point of view here, we might never get on with the subject...

[Az]

Nice try dalgetti, colour my statement even more and you'll paint me as Saddam Husseins right hand.

damn, my plot has failed....


anyway, is there something I pictured wrong ? do you rejoice the death of civilians or not ? that's a fairly simple question, right? if the answer is 'not' , then why the hell did you posted the words I quoted above?


and Siro , why don't you reply to ICQ ? you already managed to drag me here ...

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by laurentius
Nice try dalgetti, colour my statement even more and you'll paint me as Saddam Husseins right hand.

No one has to colour you.
You said it yourself that you rejoice every Israeli death, especially soldiers.

For Siro: I had my CNN subscription canceled after I got sick by their news coverage. So I agree with you that CNN is not so good source of information. Fortunately there are hundreds of other tv-channels and sources available. Big international news agencies, papers, freelancers, correspondents etc...

Hmm...

big international news agencies?

AP admitted to have been threatened by palestinian gunmen.
Italian TV published an appology to the palestinians after it released a video of the two soldiers lynching in Ramallah - again out of fear.
Reuters news editor admitted that when he releases news he "takes into consideration possible dangers to our reporters", this when asked about his ME policy.
BBC news editor is known to have openly said "We're on the palestinian side" while they should take no sides.

The economist are a bunch which think they know alot, when infact they don't. I some of their articles. They are pretty shallow people who like to think they're not. However if you trust them, I have some pro-isralei articles by them.

The Guardian also seems to only cover the palestinian side. Infact, when I clicked on an "interactive map of the conflict" it contained every bit of Israeli attacks, but no info about palestinian attacks.

So, who do you rely on?

I stopped relying on those agencies. while they do sometimes bring interesting quotes, they go out of their way to pain a picture in their head, not reality.

Furthermore, they lack the contacts in the field that Israeli TV has. They never bring quotes/captures from palestinian TV and news which show what hypocrites and liars they are.

They never inverview people who are not official spokesmen.

In an area filled with covert operations, they rely on public sources to paint a picture of what's going on.

[laurentius]

Originally posted by Ming


Hmmm... I thought it was a pretty good discription of what you said... All your backpedaling now doesn't change what you posted, or what you meant when you posted it.

Ok, maybe I didn't put it right but I wont admit meaning that I rejoyce any israelian getting killed. You are just gonna have to trust my good meaning on this one.

[Giancarlo]

The number one news source: http://www.theonion.com



On a more serious note this is probably the most unbiased new source on the internet:

http://www.drudgereport.com/ (It brings up way too many different sources to count, so people can make up their own minds)

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by laurentius
Maybe we shouldnt have these ME-discussion at all anymore. There cant be real discussion. there are only Israelies and the rest of the world, no palestinians around.

There is warvoid.

There are plenty of people who are actually not hotheaded, such as ramo, chegitz, jaakko, ras.. something and even gnu, who is one of the worst demagogues and supports killing of innocent people, but you and kamrat make me long for him.

as I try to say something I got bashed and called an evil biggot, stupid westerner who knows nothing about anything.

You are a hypocrite again.

You ignore a good half of my posts in this thread with replies to you.

You got bashed for ignoring them and acting in a hypocritical manner.

israelians can always say "hey I only have to look out of my window and I see it happening". What can we say? We are not there to witness is so we are not equal to disagree with you.

first, it was mentioning how your resources are worse then ours.

but you weren't bashed for that, but for acting hypocritically, which was exposed nicely by me and dalgetti, and you still ignore those posts.

As long as we dont have a palestinian point of view here, we might never get on with the subject...

We have had plenty such points of view by people who are not online right now, or are too tired of ME discussions going in circles.

I don't see che, rammo and jakko as much these days.

[Az]

Originally posted by laurentius
Maybe we shouldnt have these ME-discussion at all anymore. There cant be real discussion. there are only Israelies and the rest of the world, no palestinians around.

that's true. Most people can't claim to know what's going on.
But somehow they do tend to form a very solid and at times one-sided POV. I think I even had an arguement with one a short time ago. still it is important to debate . and I feel that I am doing the right thing confronting the questions and attacks , that are brought up around.

as I try to say something I got bashed and called an evil biggot, stupid westerner who knows nothing about anything.

do you wait for someone to shed a tear? or let me put this in a different manner: what do you expect to be called after your comments and replies in this thread?

israelians can always say "hey I only have to look out of my window and I see it happening". What can we say? We are not there to witness is so we are not equal to disagree with you. As long as we dont have a palestinian point of view here, we might never get on with the subject...

This is important . Better let all the hate and the prejudice out , before it turns into violent actions.

[laurentius]

I feel this is not really going anywhere right now. I'm under verbal attack from a well-known spanish far-rightwinger, 3 isreali rightwing sionists? And one of them urges me to list all the news sources ever that I've got my information from....

Since I have been declared a evil, misconducted anti-semitist, I think I'll pass the sword to next reasonable apolytoner to defend the palestinian rights too. One shouldnt try dispute with fundamentalists...

over and out


Laurentius

[Sirotnikov]

dal, now it's your turn to answer me on ICQ

about RoN



OK, laurentius - fresh start.

You reread my answers to your posts.

I'll ignore the remarks i don't like about israelis, you ignore the remarks you don't like about you.

deal?

[laurentius]

Hey siro, nothing personal! Anytime! So what do you want me to say? List News agencies and papers?

ok, Yle, AFP, BBC, Al-jazeera, FST, Helsingin Sanomat, Voima-lehti...as the lates to pop-up in my mind
I still fail to see your point....

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by laurentius
I feel this is not really going anywhere right now. I'm under verbal attack from a well-known spanish far-rightwinger, 3 isreali rightwing sionists?

who said we're rightwing?

just because we refuse to sit back and watch israelis being slaughtered we're right wing?

and one of the urges me to list all the news sources ever that I've got my information from....

why does that scare you?

It was a qeustion.

Since I have been declared a evil, misconducted anti-semitist, I think I'll pass the sword to next reasonable apolytoner to defend the palestinian rights too.

No where did you defend palestinian rights in your posts.

You simply attacked Israeli rights - the right to defend oneself.

Your first post here was a declaration of your rejoicing over Israeli deaths, and how we are a disgrace to you.

great "discussion".

And I know for the life of me, that i tried to talk to you on topic.
You chose to ignore it, repeatedly.
And when you finally responded to one post with a is when I became mad.
No one blamed you, until you began acting hypocritically.
But you like to be the victim. So fine, go away.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by laurentius
Hey siro, nothing personal! Anytime! So what do you want me to say? List News agencies and papers?

Never mind that.

to my main point:

there is a difference between actions, based on the intention.

I do not understand why you choose to ignore the intention and only focus on the result, which happens to be more dead palestinians than israelis.

using the same reason, one could compare the german and american number of dead, and decide the americans were evil opressors of the german people.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Ming
And Eli... most of time, you seem to be talking to yourself... maybe you should go see a good doctor to see if you can solve that problem

After this thread got 120 posts, I demand an apology.