How can people prefer National Socialism over Communism?

[KrazyHorse]

Are these the same people who chose rape as a worse crime than murder?

[Az]

Communism also supports people who have no intention of working or working hard. What are the incentives if you're still going to get the same stuff, no matter what you do? Why should I work hard, if some guy over there isn't willing to do the same?

you'll get a bonus , while he is sacked.
but he won't since the state will invest more in education , because of it being bigger, it will have more strength. Education was never a problem in the SU , you know.

For a business owner, if the factory is not working right, or manufacturing shoddy products, you can be sure that they will try to correct the problems, ASAP so that they can make money. What incentive is there for the government? They can always force people to buy that product because it's the only game in town.

ahem , no it's not the only game in town. there are other factories .
the government is made out of people. if their product sucks , consumers will buy the product of the competition. and that means that these people will get their asses on the street.

MacTBone : in your first post , do you adress me ? if so, quote me please.

[David Floyd]

I don't know what EPA stands for. but I think you got my proposition right . The 4th branch of the government. Not private owned.

EPA = Environmental Protection Agency.

OK, so by setting up the media as the fourth branch of government, you are giving them some sort of power over the pepole, be it regulatory, legislative, or whatever. Don't you find it dangerous to have a branch of government control both information, and be a regulatory agency of some kind with political power?

Researched is done in universities and labs.
Universities are owned by the government, right ?

Not necessarily, and not necessarily.
I find it another dangerous proposition for the government to completely own the means of higher education, don't you?
Further, researched being done in labs and universities is really fairly recent, at least in that most of the research is done there.
Additionally, even today, much research is done privately - hence pharmaceutical corporations developing new drugs, etc.

he's not forced to work . but don't you think that he'd like that job?

Don't you think he'd rather have the factory he conceived and built, and, morally speaking, owns?

errm , since the government will run the economy in a similar way that corporations do now , what's the problem ? they will use the same planned economy ( which the corporations use , btw )

If you think Western economies are run by the plans of corporations, you really don't understand the way free market economies work. I really don't, either, but I know they don't work like that.

they want to be re-elected, right ?

Oh, no problem - they can just use the branch of government called "The Media" to influence public opinion

at least that's what you assume.

I'd say it's a fair assumption

[David Floyd]

you'll get a bonus , while he is sacked.

And then he'll get propped up by social services, and end up making almost as much money doing jack**** as he made working.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Velociryx, we're talking about communism in general here, not Stalinism as such. Of course that need s to be debated as well, buthave you ever thought about socialist theories without thinking of de-facto-fascists like Stalin in the same moment?

Then you can't hold Hitler has the example of Fascism! It is hypocritical to say you are comparing Communism in general versus Hitler. How about Communism in general v. Fascism in general.

Personally, seeing all the Communist and Fascist regimes in the world. I'd perfer to live in Mussolini's Italy (before the war).

[mactbone]

but he won't since the state will invest more in education , because of it being bigger, it will have more strength.

Uhh, what did you just say? Because he has an education he will work hard??? What happened to the communist ideal of the beurgois (sp, I know it's wrong...) class? I thought they were a bunch of lazy people making money off the masses? Wait... it can be both ways!!! Education will not make someone inherently want to work. In fact, where is the incentive to be better than others if you are all equal?

[Az]

OK, so by setting up the media as the fourth branch of government, you are giving them some sort of power over the pepole, be it regulatory, legislative, or whatever. Don't you find it dangerous to have a branch of government control both information, and be a regulatory agency of some kind with political power?

yes , but we include if you inlcude more than one media company, that will kinda solve the problem , right ?
plus , if any other government branch will see it self in a position in which it's good name is being at stake , it can sue the media agency . that would create a very small amount of extra strain on the judicial system , but nothing more.

Not necessarily, and not necessarily.
I find it another dangerous proposition for the government to completely own the means of higher education, don't you?
Further, researched being done in labs and universities is really fairly recent, at least in that most of the research is done there.
Additionally, even today, much research is done privately - hence pharmaceutical corporations developing new drugs, etc.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with government owning the means of higher education . In Israel , I can say that it is working perfect . ( well , almost ) . what do you worry about ?

any company can still have an R&D dept.. that will probably be the only department , not to be affected by the quality of the job it's doing. This would be the company CEO's call.

Oh, no problem - they can just use the branch of government called "The Media" to influence public opinion

so you agree with the notion that trials at your country are set up , right ? I hope you understand what I mean . And in the case you don't I mean " do you accept that the judicial system in the US is not administratively dependant on the other parts of the govt.

If you think Western economies are run by the plans of corporations, you really don't understand the way free market economies work. I really don't, either, but I know they don't work like that

I know they most aren't. But corporations are run by their plans .
actually , western economies plan ahead too , but that's a different subject. the thing is that the whole country will plan ahead on things it needs. I am way to get into this , since it's 11PM around here , and there is school tomorrow. let's just say that there will be competition concerning consumer goods.

I'd say it's a fair assumption

. come to think about it , I think this dissagreement can pretty much sum up our argument.

And then he'll get propped up by social services, and end up making almost as much money doing jack**** as he made working.

he'll not starve , yet he'll had a hard life , with recreational facilities too expenisive. yet his kids will have all they need to go to school ( pencils , books , notebooks ) , and will be able to go to college if their grades are high.

[Solly]

Communism and Stalinism are just not the same thing!

National Socialism and "Hitlerism" are just not the same thing then.

[Az]

Originally posted by MacTBone


Uhh, what did you just say? Because he has an education he will work hard??? What happened to the communist ideal of the beurgois (sp, I know it's wrong...) class? I thought they were a bunch of lazy people making money off the masses? Wait... it can be both ways!!! Education will not make someone inherently want to work. In fact, where is the incentive to be better than others if you are all equal?

*cough*

when I say education , I mean , how do they call it around your places ... ehh ... brainwashing ...

now don't look at me that way. we are all being taught to wash ourselves , fart as little as possible with other people around , and do all kinds of other stuff. I think that seems pretty fair to teach children to work hard.

Imran you again confuse stalinism with communism.

[Solly]

And regarding the ridiculous pro-communism arguments:

What incentive is there for anyone to work harder? If you were told you would earn £5k a year (which is probably what you'd get in a communist country ), no matter how hard you worked or what ****-ups you made, would you work as hard as if you were told you would be paid based on the quality and usefulness of your labour?

Of course you wouldn't. Communism is an inefficient system.

[Az]

well, now what is National Socialism for you , Boddington's ?

so we don't confuse it with "Hitlerism" ...

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Boddington's


National Socialism and "Hitlerism" are just not the same thing then.

Yes, they are! There was no National Socialism before Hitler, he invented it. Stalin didn´t create communism, Marx and Engels did.

[Az]

It's amazing Boddington's . did you read the thread at all ?

[DinoDoc]

Just out of curiosity, how many of the commies in this thread are either Leninist or Trotskyist?

[Solly]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
well, now what is National Socialism for you , Boddington's ?

so we don't confuse it with "Hitlerism" ...

Yes, there are winners and losers in capitalism. The winners are those who are honest, industrious, thoughtful, prudent, frugal, responsible, disciplined, and efficient. The losers are those who are shiftless, lazy, imprudent, extravagant, negligent, impractical, and inefficient.

Capitalism is the only social system that rewards virtue and punishes vice. This applies to both the business executive and the carpenter, the lawyer and the factory worker.