How can people prefer National Socialism over Communism?

[Drekkus]

If I would have to choose to live in nazi germany or stalinist russia, I'd pick nazi germany. My blond innocent looks would have made me about the last person to be destroyed.

Talking ideologies, can someone seriously claim nazism is better? To believe in something that claims that certain people should be destroyed because of their race?? Fascism is sick, but nazism is even worse. Some people have been brainwashed beyond repair here.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Ecthelion


Killing 50 million people in a war that would probably be lost in the end is logical to you?

I'll remember that one...

Huh? Who said anything about wanting to kill 50 million people?

[Ecthy]

Boddington's -

1) 6 million were killed in camps. The figure is controversial, but it's a fact they killed masses in camps, intentionally.

2) War means dead people. Warfare with air force means many dad people, especially if the bombings are carried out in a carpet-bombing style, such as the Germans did in Coentry and London, and such as Americans and English did in every German industrial city.

3) The war in the East was "a war of destruction" as Hitler called it. They had orders to kill political officers, as was the intent of the war to eradicate allegedly inferior people in order to create "breathing room" ("Lebensraum") for future and present Germans. They destroyed villages and cities without a sign of enemy resistance, and killed hundrds of civilians for each German soldier killed by Partisans on formerly Soviet territory.

Slavs and Jews were equally persecuted, dported and killed by industrial measurements, the figures go into millions...

4) War also means dead soldiers, and the way some countries organised their armies (not only the USSR, also the German armies consisted of rather young, hardly trained men and boys towards the end...) meant millions of casualties.

[Ecthy]

And, before I forget it, war was what they were heading for all the time.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Drekkus
If I would have to choose to live in nazi germany or stalinist russia, I'd pick nazi germany. My blond innocent looks would have made me about the last person to be destroyed.

Talking ideologies, can someone seriously claim nazism is better? To believe in something that claims that certain people should be destroyed because of their race?? Fascism is sick, but nazism is even worse. Some people have been brainwashed beyond repair here.

Well then, it seems most people here find a Stalinist regime to be worse due to deportation and starvation.

Any official figures about people being randomly killed or deported to Siberia? To be quite honest, I doubt that the lack of freedom for the individual was so much worse than in Nazi Germany. That doesn't apply for the time of the Russian civil war though.

Besides, who is talking about Stalinism? We still have to consider the future of a communist-ruled Germany in the 30s. Those guys had absolutely no connection to Stalin, nor was there any necessity to make people starve, since the German economy already had a *certain* standard, and there was industry as well...

[Stefu]

) 6 million were killed in camps. The figure is controversial, but it's a fact they killed masses in camps, intentionally.

Actually, I believe 6 million is the number of Jews killed. Factoring in Roma, homosexuals, communists, and so on, the real number of people killed in camps is (IIRC) something like 12 million.

[faded glory]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
Harsh policies? You say yourself that Nazism is as bad as communism. And what´s the difference between being sent to Siberia and being sent to Treblinka?

Yes.....but Communist's butchered way more than the fascists. And all that crap about ethnic cleansing the jews. Well, the Communists killed there share of jews. And dotn forget, if you were an Uzbek, or Chechen.....tsk...tsk...you were saying? Racial hatred? Both were festering with it. But Nazi's treated there people better.

Ever seen the bread line in Theresienstadt or Auschwitz?

Irrelevant... Before the war, the majority German people lived like human beings. The same cannot be said for the Russians.

. Apart from that, how do you want to know that one in 20 East Europeans was sent to Siberia? That's a slight exaggeration of the facts

No it isnt. Have you any idea how many were sent to the Gulags? If you thinking a few hundred thousand.....think higher. Try 10 million. Most died of course.

Killing 50 million people in a war that would probably be lost in the end is logical to you?

Stalin killed half that many in the 30's. His own people, not war mind you.

Killing 50 million people in a war that would probably be lost in the end is logical to you?

Very true. But remember what Stalin did to the Ukranians and Eastern Europeans...Rake up another 15 million dead civilians. Cause he used the state authority to create a famine in the Ukraine. Not once, TWICE!

[Solly]

So you're changing the definition of National Socialist in order to suit your argument, Andz83?

[Velociryx]

Yeah...you're right. I'd feel sooooo much better knowing I was being killed cos I wasn't part of the master race than to know I was being killed cos I was in the way of Stalin's grand plan.

I'd shoot myself to avoid the vote.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Better still, I'd save the bullet for the guy makin' me decide between two essentially untentable choices...

-=Vel=-

[Ecthy]

Boddington's, that had no connection to my point at all.

Velociryx, we're talking about communism in general here, not Stalinism as such. Of course that need s to be debated as well, buthave you ever thought about socialist theories without thinking of de-facto-fascists like Stalin in the same moment?

Faded Glory, I won't discuss the Stalin issue any further, it doesn't lead anywhere. But please explain me how sending people into gulags is linked to socialism or communism respectively? Stalin was not really a communist, and you'll find that the later governments of the USSR and East Europe took a big distance to Stalinist ideals and the cult about hsi person or any ruling person at all.

[Serb]

Ecthelion,
Don’t waste your time on these guys. They know nothing about nazism. They do not understand the difference between being hanged after the farce court, and being burned alive because you are Jews or Slav.
I think if their countries lost 27 millions of people in war against nazism their attitude will be different.
I respect you, and all modern Germans who think that way about nazism. And I wish to thank you for this. But it is not your fault. Remember about these terrible times in your history, but please don’t blame yourself for it, modern Germans not guilty.

[Ecthy]

Thanks a lot I don't really feel guilty for what happened. It's a controversal topic in Germany, but I won't go into this now. Most importantly, I think there's more guilt on guys like these, who just don't want to accept that a system that is based on bigoted pseudo-ideals and pure jingoism is worse per definition than a system that wants equal living standard for every member of a society, and of the human race in the end.

It is simple like that, you guys just keep using Stalinism as the one and only example for communism in practice.

Why did communism fail? Because you guys fought it, and fought it very hard. You might call it righ, but guess what: I could call the World Trade Center a very weak, inefficient and evil building (or 2 of them), because it crumbled and killed many people. But I don't, because I know how t olook at the whole picture. Get the parallel?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Thanks a lot I don't really feel guilty for what happened.
It is simple like that, you guys just keep using Stalinism as the one and only example for communism in practice.

I’m glad about this. I just saw Germans who still feel guilty for deeds of their ancestors, and I don’t think that it right.

I think there's more guilt on guys like these, who just don't want to accept that a system that is based on bigoted pseudo-ideals and pure jingoism is worse per definition than a system that wants equal living standard for every member of a society, and of the human race in the end.

Agreed. But what are you expected from guys brainwashed by propaganda in times of Cold war. They always will be associate Communism with Stalinism.

Why did communism fail? Because you guys fought it, and fought it very hard. You might call it righ, but guess what: I could call the World Trade Center a very weak, inefficient and evil building (or 2 of them), because it crumbled and killed many people. But I don't, because I know how t olook at the whole picture. Get the parallel?

Very precision example.

[Solly]

Andz, you're making the false assumption that National Socialism = Hitler.