confessions of a bigot

[devilmunchkin]

actually, kaak, homosexuality is one sin according to the bible. it says that it is wrong to do the act and the act alone.

Genesis 19
5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.
8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

Leviticus 18
22 "`Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20
13 "`If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

judges 19
22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, "Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him."
23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, "No, my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing.
24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, don't do such a disgraceful thing."

romans 1
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

1 Corinthians 6
9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

look and you will see that it is the act. BUt look what it says about your sin:

Exodus 20
14 "You shall not commit adultery.

Job 31
1 "I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl.

Proverbs 5
15 Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well.
16 Should your springs overflow in the streets, your streams of water in the public squares?
17 Let them be yours alone, never to be shared with strangers.
18 May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
19 A loving doe, a graceful deer-- may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love.
20 Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife?
21 For a man's ways are in full view of the LORD, and he examines all his paths.

Proverbs 6
24 keeping you from the immoral woman, from the smooth tongue of the wayward wife.

Proverbs 7
1 My son, keep my words and store up my commands within you.
2 Keep my commands and you will live; guard my teachings as the apple of your eye.
3 Bind them on your fingers; write them on the tablet of your heart.
4 Say to wisdom, "You are my sister," and call understanding your kinsman;
5 they will keep you from the adulteress, from the wayward wife with her seductive words.

Proverbs 31
3 do not spend your strength on women, your vigor on those who ruin kings.

Matthew 5
28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matthew 19
12 For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage [1] because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Acts 15
20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.


Romans 13
13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

1 Corinthians 6
13 "Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"--but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never!
16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." [1]
17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

1 Corinthians 7
1 Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 7 I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.
9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are. If anyone thinks he is acting improperly toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if she is getting along in years and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin--this man also does the right thing.

Ephesians 5
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.

Colossians 3
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

1 Thessalonians 4
3 It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;

1 Timothy 4
12 Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity.

Revelation 14
1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

because you won't listen to reason, i must resort to using your own law against you. you are no better than a homosexual. in your law, neither of you will get to heaven..but it is worse for you because you cannot even lust after a woman...but it is YOU who commit 2 sins by lusting after women AND commiting the act. the act is the only bad thing about homosexuality..according to YOUR bible.

so....

Luke 16
15 He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

Kaak, i'm afriad you are a Pharisee, though i believe you and your religion hold about as much water as a butterfly net. but, so that you will see my point...i use the one thing you MUST listen to...unless you become like me. and you can't.


Luke 11
33 "No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead he puts it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light.
34 Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are good, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are bad, your body also is full of darkness.
35 See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness.
36 Therefore, if your whole body is full of light, and no part of it dark, it will be completely lighted, as when the light of a lamp shines on you."
37 When Jesus had finished speaking, a Pharisee invited him to eat with him; so he went in and reclined at the table.
38 But the Pharisee, noticing that Jesus did not first wash before the meal, was surprised.
39 Then the Lord said to him, "Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness.
40 You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also?
41 But give what is inside [the dish] [1] to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.
42 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.
43 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces.
44 "Woe to you, because you are like unmarked graves, which men walk over without knowing it."
45 One of the experts in the law answered him, "Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also."
46 Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.
47 "Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your forefathers who killed them.
48 So you testify that you approve of what your forefathers did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs.
49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, `I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.'
50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
52 "Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering."
53 When Jesus left there, the Pharisees and the teachers of the law began to oppose him fiercely and to besiege him with questions,
54 waiting to catch him in something he might say.

[orange]

I think for anyone to prejudge someone else based on homosexuality (among other things) is so ridiculous it doesn't make any sense.

What happens Kaak if your best friend turns out to be gay. He doesn't come on to you, he doesn't want you sexually, he just tells you that he recently found out he's gay. Do you automatically dislike him because of his sexual preference?

If not - than you've shown why it is wrong to prejudge someone based on their sexuality. You might very well meet someone who is homosexual and lose out on a rewarding friendship with that person simply because you don't want to associate with them...how awful is that?

If so - you are an ignorant, bigoted, neptune sized piece of ****

[devilmunchkin]

PS, here's what your lovely bible has to say about bigots....you being the christian..you'd think you'd know all this....unless you knew and didn't use it because you KNEW it would tell you that you are wrong....

Isaiah 65
5 who say, `Keep away; don't come near me, for I am too sacred for you!' Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day.

Mark 2
16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and `sinners'?"

Luke 15
2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."

Luke 9
49 "Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.
Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."


Luke 18
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable:
10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about [1] himself: `God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, `God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Acts 10
28 He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean.

Acts 10
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.[/quote]

bigotry overcome....

John 4
9 The Samaritan woman said to him, "You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?" (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans. [1] )

Luke 7
39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is--that she is a sinner."
40 Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you." "Tell me, teacher," he said.
41 "Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, [4] and the other fifty.
42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"
43 Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled." "You have judged correctly," Jesus said.
44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.
45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet.
46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet.
47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven--for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."
48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
49 The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"
50 Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

basically, what all of this comes down to...is that you and baylor can take your false God and your twisted readings of the bible that are so WRONG and shove it up your ARSE (pun intended). NONE of you are better than anyone else and you seriously need to stop justifying your evil ways with a text that doesn't support your claim

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Hey Munchie, why not give some advice as well, such as:

4. Matthew 6:14-15, "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Matthew 5:44-48: "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

You're forgeting, Muchie, the Bible has good parts too.

EDIT: Was writing this so I didn't see that last post.

[devilmunchkin]

emperor: i have documented every single passage on the subjects. there are no more parts. it's all out on the table. end of discussion.

i'm tired of this crap.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

umm...what crap would this be, exactly?

as much as I disagree with him, I don't think Kaak was JUST using scripture to explain his bigotry.

[MrFun]

Emperor, I just love your adorable dancing cow.

And by the way--although Kaak is a Christian, what about those who are on Apolyton who are not Christian, but Jewish, or Muslim?

We need all the interpretations from the Koran and from the Old Testament.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Thanks, Mr. Fun, and I...am amused every time I see your avatar, just because its so out there

In actuality, the rules against homosexuality are for the most part to be found in the Torah (Old Testament.) Devilmunch just put in a few.

I am a Congregationalist, which is one of the more liberal forms of Christianity. In fact, our previous minister is a lesbian.

[MrFun]

And the Koran??

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Well, the Koran does incorporate the Old Testament to a certain extent. However, in the Christian viewpoint, people are inherently bad, and must repent. In the Muslim viewpoint, people are generally good yet prone to mistakes. Take it as you will.

Personally, I like: "If it harm none, do as ye will."

[devilmunchkin]

emperor: and notice that i did quote the torah.

as for crap: perhaps kaak is only causing such a ruckus because this happens to be a very current issue at our univeristy. We go to a private baptist univeristy where we have an unofficial gay group that has formed and it's caused..quite a stir.
I'm just sick of hearing all of the uneducated ideas surrounding it. It appalls me that such thinking exists. BUt not everyone can be...advanced....can they?



ANd I'm not muslim....christianity is what i'm very familar with. It's what i've studied...and i've done so for instances like this...where i use it against people who are all talk (iq, etc) and no walk (shows ignorance).

[devilmunchkin]

books on this topic to further support my claims...

Living in Sin? : A Bishop Rethinks Human by John Shelby

and

Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by john Boswell (the catholic church performed same sex marriages for a time....)

[Kaak]

chooses to live their life, or is genetically made to live their life, be hated?

first off, i never used the word hate.
I look at it similarly to this. I meet someone. I think they are a nice person. I find out they like kiddy porn. I no longer like this person.

Same kind of thing to me, both are detestable.

DM, i think you miss the point of the 2 sins comment. 1) same sex sex is a sin. 2) sex out of marriage is a sin 3) homos cannot be married in the eyes of god, in my opinion 4) any homo sex would therefore be sodomy, and sex out of wedlock, and for that matter, one lusting after the other. 3-2 I win =)

I think someone else used plato earlier too. This isn't exactly applicable. The greeks did not perform sodomy. Sex between two males was between the thighs, there was no penetration of orrifices...And even then, many people viewed it as wrong. Check some Aristotle, he condemns it...

DM, if you read back, I wasn't basing my opinion on scripture. I only made reference to sin as a response to someone else. I am no super christian, and am not perfect, nor claim to be.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Kaak
I think someone else used plato earlier too. This isn't exactly applicable. The greeks did not perform sodomy. Sex between two males was between the thighs, there was no penetration of orrifices...And even then, many people viewed it as wrong. Check some Aristotle, he condemns it...

Yes I did. I was talking about "Symposium" by Plato where, in one part of the book, discusses the true form of love, what is the truest, best form of love and also discusses in that homosexual love (love as in love, appreciation, adoration not necessairily sex).

There, in "Symposium", it is also stated than homosexual love is frowned upon.

Unfortunately I don't know much about the subject but AFAIK in ancient Greece homosexuality was frowned upon by the biggest part of the Greeks.

Then again the morality was totally different than what morality is now. (Now it's largely Christian based).

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW Kaak this is not meant to tease you but when I saw your pictures I thought " this guy is homosexual". Don't know why but I did

Again this is not to offend you and I wouldn't have said it if there wasn't a post about that matter.