Turkey shuts down Kurdish TV

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Lars-E
When did religion play a part in this?

Because I think it was you who said -I hope not to mix you up with someone else - that Catholics and Orthodox are 'dead religions'. Have you ever heard of Opus Dei ? I ask you that for a reason, because they are crazy Catholic Fascists who will assuredly lock you up for 'political crime' if they ever come to power.

That´s why I am suggesting not to use the words 'political crime'. They could be used against everybody, including you.

[Lars-E]

We were talking about Haider and Waldheim then you related that to islam and christianity... Thus my question.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Lars-E
Asking and stating are two different things.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Anyways you're defending Slobo who has committed crimes against humanity.

Pleeeease. He has been accused of crimes against humanity. That is a very different thing, if the accusations happen to be false. If they say you have crucified Christ, and I know you haven´t, wouldn´t you think I should defend you?

In your book he's the Messiah in his second coming.

No, he isn´t. He doesn´t match the prophecies. But he is, perhaps, quite a nice guy.

I'm wondering about your nick...

It´s my CivII handle. My own philosophy are the things I am talking about all the time.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Lars-E
If you do not want to call that ostracism fine . The very idea of ostracism was that you had to leave the country. Go into exile.

Yes, I know. That´s the source of the misunderstanding.

Exile could result from
a) a trial.
b) an Ostracism.

In the case of a) you were considered a criminal, exile was usually permanent, and you could lose property and/or citizenship in addition.

b) was none of the above. You could return after a certain time -10 years, I think-, as if nothing had happened. So there is a difference, and this was what my post was all about.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Lars-E
So Waldheim was not brownish and a nazi according to you.

No, not really; he was an opportunist. Like, say, the fans of George Bush. An ideological Nazi, he wasn´t.

So he didnt do it cos noone proved it. Just like you claim for Slobo. If there (allegedly) is no proof it cannot have happened.

Talk about mixing up and confusing.

If you really like to lock people up without proof, why not move to the US, and join the Office of Homeland Security?

(Though my personal bet is you are a good person, who just didn´t think it through, yet. )

[Lars-E]

Yes, I know. That´s the source of the misunderstanding.

Exile could result from
a) a trial.
b) an Ostracism.

In the case of a) you were considered a criminal, exile was usually permanent, and you could lose property and/or citizenship in addition.

b) was none of the above. You could return after a certain time -10 years, I think-, as if nothing had happened. So there is a difference, and this was what my post was all about.

You seem to forget one important thing: the modern usage of the word ostracism. Yes, ppl take oldtime concepts and use them in new settings.

Let's say Jörg got so unpopular in Austria that he fled to the island of Capri. The media would then be likely to write that he had been ostracised. Your definition does not encompass the modern usage. This is a serious omission and thus your arguments and definitions fall short.

For instance, remember my prophetic post about Jörg Haider, and that it would only be a matter of time before he showed himself as a political criminal? Guess what a few days after I wrote this he's now charged with political crimes and is facing 2 yrs in prison! He went to see his good buddy Saddam and brought some equipment with him.

And you say let's not use such harsh words as political crimes... How about now Oh, wait, he's not been found guilty yet, so in the eyes of the law he's innocent. Until proven guilty... Just a matter of time then perhaps

If we cannot use the words political criminals on ppl who commit ethnic cleansing etc. - can we use the words at all? Hitler, Stalin, and others were not criminal? They were men-o-state. Yes, when you reach a certain level you're not a murderer anymore, just a hero rebel trying to free ppl or other verbiage.

If you really like to lock people up without proof, why not move to the US, and join the Office of Homeland Security?

(Though my personal bet is you are a good person, who just didn´t think it through, yet. )

I'd like to move to the USA - any Apolytoners have a job for a MBA-grad ? I'm eligible for a greencard thru a relative.

The Office of Homeland Security? Why not? But not for the reasons you stated.

I'm not talking about locking up ppl without evidence of course The UN-case against Slobo and others are presented with evidence and witnesses are summoned. I have read something that the court is having problems at the moment coming up with hard evidence, but this does not prove that they ever won't. Slobo hid his tracks like a mafia boss mostly using oral orders. Hopefully they'll find some writings. Although giving oral orders is as much evidence as anything else, but it can be harder to prove. Witnesses come in handy here and that's why the court is trying to round some up. Likely witnesses have already stated that they will show up.

If they didn't think they had a case against him they would've never indicted him and the Serbs would've not gotten rid of him. Yes Serbs in government and others do believe he's guilty. And they have firsthand knowledge.

As far as dead religion goes this as a metaphor for nominal religion. Your Opus Dei example does not apply.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Lars-E
For instance, remember my prophetic post about Jörg Haider, and that it would only be a matter of time before he showed himself as a political criminal? Guess what a few days after I wrote this he's now charged with political crimes and is facing 2 yrs in prison! He went to see his good buddy Saddam and brought some equipment with him.

He is not accused of a political crime, rather a business delict.

The 2year thing doesn´t apply, don´t believe anything you read in the press. He will be accused of a misdemeanour, and pay a small fine.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Lars-E
If we cannot use the words political criminals on ppl who commit ethnic cleansing etc. - can we use the words at all?

What about calling them common criminals? I never said you couldn´t.

I just dislike the word 'political criminal'.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Lars-E
If they didn't think they had a case against him they would've never indicted him and the Serbs would've not gotten rid of him. Yes Serbs in government and others do believe he's guilty. And they have firsthand knowledge.

Yeah, and they are his political enemies. And CIA puppets as well. If Slobo was their enemy, he can´t be all bad.

[Imran Siddiqui]

This was related to the fact that islam throughout history has been spread thru violence. And if that is due to the content of that religion then I don't care very much for it.

Has Christianity been spread through violence? Oh yeah, it definetly has, unless you believe the Jews and Muslims in Spain converted because they had a revelation , and if that is due to the content of that religion then I don't care very much for it .

Funny that you don't climb up on your soapbox when christianity is degraded. Is it because degrading christianity is PC? Some americans think it's a sign of intellectualism to do so.

Obviously you haven't been here long. I defend Christianity in debates with atheists. Your ignorance is astounding.

[Lars-E]

[QUOTE]Has Christianity been spread through violence? Oh yeah, it definetly has, unless you believe the Jews and Muslims in Spain converted because they had a revelation , and if that is due to the content of that religion then I don't care very much for it .

I was talking about islam here. Why are you changing the subject?

Obviously you haven't been here long. I defend Christianity in debates with atheists. Your ignorance is astounding.

I was talking about the average Apolytoner.

So what is it?
1) I have not been here long
2) I have been here long and not read your posts
3) I have been here long and read your posts and been blind everytime i saw the word christian

Pick one.

The fact that I can list 3 different logical answers to your ignorant accusations prove my point about americans:

* They make a great fuss
* Claim stuff and never back it up
* Are generally looked upon as ignorant by Euopeans
* An american calling educated Europeans for ignorant is ironic
* And yes, there's unfortunately more

Do you like my sig?

[Ramo]

But I'm afraid I don't se painfully high taxes as the equivalent of actual pain, torture, or death. I guess that's why I'm not a libertarian.

What about starvation? You're simply not recognizing the implication of high taxes on poor people.

Lars:

The reason why people are getting bent out of shape is that you're mocking Islam because it was spread by violence, while you believe in a religion that was certainly spread by violence. There's a word for that - hypocrisy.

[Lars-E]

Originally posted by Ramo
Lars:

The reason why people are getting bent out of shape is that you're mocking Islam because it was spread by violence, while you believe in a religion that was certainly spread by violence. There's a word for that - hypocrisy.

I am merely stating historical facts. If stating history is mockery then it's genocide to kill a fly. You're going way overboard here. Why is it not legal to discuss islam?

Yes, hypocricy is the right word. Everytime one tries to discuss islam you can bet the next post will be about christianity.

Comrade Tribune or other Europeans, could you please come in here and try to rise the level of discussion. I'm talking to americans here... You understand. (One of them is even a texan..) To them stating history is mockery if it's about islam. No wonder....though...these kiddos are brainwashed EVERY day. Pledging allegiance in school with their hand covering the heart area Their history books have nothing on islam cos that's mockery y'all! This is the impression they give in this thread at least. There's a word for it - ridiculous.

[Ramo]

No, stating facts isn't mockery.

But saying "some religion, huh?" was mockery.

That's opinion. A hypocritical one at that.

[Ramo]

And can you possibly type a single post without assinine insults directed at Americans?