Slavery Museum - Bad Idea?

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Tingkai



And a prime example are white people complaining about how they are victims of reverse discrimination. It is far easier to say "I didn't get into university because of I'm a victim of affirmative action" then to take responsibility for not studying hard enough. It is easier to say "I didn't get promoted because I'm not a black lesbian" rather than working harder for the next promotion.

Affirmative action covers a small percentage of the available jobs at any given moment. To sit there and complain about reverse discrimination is just a cop-out.

Exactly. White Americans are born with every opportunity in the world; outside of royalty, no other people have ever been so privledged. If you are unhappy with your station in life, it is not the fault of blacks, or the civil rights movement, or affirmative action. The fault is your own.

Do you honestly believe that more blacks get hired/promoted "because of" affirmative action than blacks who don't get hired at all/left behind because they are black? Forget the lemonade, Saddam. Try to find a clue instead.

[chequita guevara]

Stevorino? How much of your "knowledge" of Affirmative Action is first hand, and how much is just sumpin' about sumpin'. (just friends talking, in the words of my Aunt)? I've heard lots of stories about some white guy who got passed over, but I've only met one guy who didn't get into the college he wanted. I've met plenty more Black folks who have been passed over for promotion or paid less or lost their jobs because of their race.

[faded glory]

I dont think so Che. A self styled Communist like yourself should be very much opposed to Affirmitive action.

It boils down to one thing: Promotion/hiring on the bases of color, regardless if you are best qualified. Its that simple. That is discrimination to the man who doesnt get hired, yet has more credentials.

[chequita guevara]

You didn't answer my question.

[faded glory]

How much of your "knowledge" of Affirmative Action is first hand, and how much is just sumpin' about sumpin'. (just friends talking, in the words of my Aunt)? I've heard lots of stories about some white guy who got passed over, but I've only met one guy who didn't get into the college he wanted. I've met plenty more Black folks who have been passed over for promotion or paid less or lost their jobs because of their race.

Sorry...I hear things about it on Rush,CNBC, and FOX. The other media dont report that stuff.


Che: Im not saying discrimination doesnt happen....Im saying Affirmitive action is a form of discrimination. And it is....



Now answer my question?


You claim to be a Communist. Yet any "True Communist" would,without a doubt, oppose this. So where are your true colors che?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by David Floyd
After an ultimatum for withdrawal passed, South Carolina troops under PGT Beauregard fired on the fort, killing NO US troops, and forcing the surrender of Fort Sumter.

Do you mind telling me why the US had to withdraw troops from property it owned?

[faded glory]

Because Sumter was a huge stronghold in Charleston harbor,which disrupted shipping

The Rebs didnt want it to be there. It was bristling with like 100 cannons

[chequita guevara]

Aside from me, how many true communists do you know? (There are quite a few in Milwaukee, and if you're a metal worker or a printer, you might actually know some.)

As for what real commies think about AA, you are incorrect. Communists are supportive of attempts to end racial oppression of minorities, though we may disagree with specifics. For example, I support AA, just not it's current implementation. I defend it, however, because, as flawed as it is, it is better than nothing.

Whites have no inherent right to white skin privelege. Look at it this way. Everyone has a right to x. However, due to racism in 1970, white males got x+2, while white women and Black males got x-1. Affirmative Actions is attempted to take that +2 from us white guys and give it to women and Black men. Because we are used to getting x+2, we say "Hey, that's mine! That's not fair," but we never should have recieved nor did we earn that +2. Now, AA has managed to help one group of people, white women. Now the formula looks like white men: x+1, white women; x, and Black men; x-1.

I could probably explain this better, but I actually have some work to do today, so I can't spend all day at Poly.

[KrazyHorse]

Meanwhile I don't support AA based on skin-colour, but instead on economic background.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Guynemer


Exactly. White Americans are born with every opportunity in the world; outside of royalty, no other people have ever been so privledged. If you are unhappy with your station in life, it is not the fault of blacks, or the civil rights movement, or affirmative action. The fault is your own.

Do you honestly believe that more blacks get hired/promoted "because of" affirmative action than blacks who don't get hired at all/left behind because they are black? Forget the lemonade, Saddam. Try to find a clue instead.

As long as blacks are lead to believe that their condition is helpless and is depended upon "programs" then they will be stuck in the victim meantality. To be fair most african americans probably don't feel this way. But this is the mentality that the black "leaders" need to push. What use would an Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson whos defining features are that they are black. Ethnic background will always be apart of who anyone is. Racism is a human condition. Those that say that white people invented racism are talking out their ass. Black people are just as capable of it as anyone.

Getting back to the topic. Build a museum. Then we will see what it is used for. If it is used to educate people about the evils of slavery, every last bit of it, then it would have been worth the effort. But if it is used as a political tool, what Cal is afraid of, then hopefully there will be people around to present another side. That's the beauty of America. There is always someone willing to express a counter view. But if someone does present an alternative view, don't automaticall assume they are racists or ignorant. If they are, then they will present ample opportunity to prove it themselves. But this holier than thou attitude that all differring opinions are somehow bad and racists only goes to show that some are not willing to give the other side an opportunity to exist. Which is just as bad.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Aside from me, how many true communists do you know? (There are quite a few in Milwaukee, and if you're a metal worker or a printer, you might actually know some.)

As for what real commies think about AA, you are incorrect. Communists are supportive of attempts to end racial oppression of minorities, though we may disagree with specifics. For example, I support AA, just not it's current implementation. I defend it, however, because, as flawed as it is, it is better than nothing.

Whites have no inherent right to white skin privelege. Look at it this way. Everyone has a right to x. However, due to racism in 1970, white males got x+2, while white women and Black males got x-1. Affirmative Actions is attempted to take that +2 from us white guys and give it to women and Black men. Because we are used to getting x+2, we say "Hey, that's mine! That's not fair," but we never should have recieved nor did we earn that +2. Now, AA has managed to help one group of people, white women. Now the formula looks like white men: x+1, white women; x, and Black men; x-1.

I could probably explain this better, but I actually have some work to do today, so I can't spend all day at Poly.

When does it end?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Do you mind telling me why the US had to withdraw troops from property it owned?

It's questionable whether the US "owned" the property at all. There was no deed transfer, and the land belonged to the sovereign State of South Carolina for years before there even was a United States.

Besides, you missed/ignored my other post about all the relevent background to the Sumter/Pickens missions, and Yankee agression at Fort Barrancas, Florida, three months earlier.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sprayber
When does it end?

That is an extremely valid question. I wish I could give you a good answer.

[KrazyHorse]

I'm probably going to have to bow out of this discussion. I know when the Civil War started and ended, and the basics of 3 or 4 battles.

Meanwhile, let's discuss the Metis rebellion in Manitoba.

(By the way, I missed your post, not ignored it. I'm checking it now).

[Chris 62]

Lots of interesting stuff, but just a few comments.

Reb, the USA's economy wasn't as heavily cotton driven as your making oiut, this is the same mistake the Southern traitors made when they tried to sekdaddle and were spanked for their troubles.

America's economy in the early 19th century was centered on Northern manufactures, Yankee whaling, Yankee merchant marine based out of New England, as well as the cotton trade, but cotton made up about 30% of US GNP, even though, as you say, it was 75% of USA exports, so Slavery isn't the driving factor in the USA's economy, as the South found out when they tried to lit out of their country.

In actual fact, slavery was nearly finished in the USA by 1800, it was the invention of the cotton gin that made the cotton trade profitable, and caused the resumption of the vile trade of humans to be resumed.

As for who started the war of Southern traitors, those who turned their backs on our nation and our flag called themselves Butternuts and Johhny Rebs, and they paid a price for thier betrayal of the country of their birth.

The "States rights" issue at the birth of the USA was a vile attempt to leave a back-door for slavery should the country ever turn against Slavery (as Franklin wanted), and we can all be thankful that this was stopped, as horible cost to both sides in that conflict.

Early America looked to the South for it's Army and it's politicians, what a horrible betrayal they attempted.

As for other stuff, the gass-pumper is being silly, but in his idocy, he does bring up a valid point about college and credits and such.
Everyone should be held to the same standard, if you lower it, your hurting the people your lowering it for, for you are telling them that they are inferior, and need help, which is bull.

The statement that being white gives you first class status by someone (to lazy to find out who) is to vile to contemplate, and is an insult beyound measure to asians, blacks, all the people of this earth. We are all the same.

I was born white, and never recieved any special treatment, all I have I earned, nobody helped me or made it easy, nobody (not even my family, which was at borderline middle class, just above poverty, really) paid for my college, or got me work, or anything else. Those kind of statements feed the exact opposite of what is needed, that kind of statement tries to make a white man feel guilty for being born, pure bull.