Slavery Museum - Bad Idea?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


Ok, I want an Irish immigrant museum.
Let's all be represented.

You miss the point. It's not about representing a group of people, it's about representing an historical institution. There is already an excllent immigration museum at Ellis Island.

And i stand by what I said, Caligastia: no institution, not even the Constitution, has had more effect on US history. It's worth remembering that the Constitution did nothing about slavery, but slavery provoked a Constitutional crisis and a civil war.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by BeBro


Well, what is your point here? Others can ask: Whats wrong with an american museum of slavery where slavery is addressed appropriately?

Do you think facts about slavery only have a place in a general history museum? Why are there museums for old automobiles then? Shouldn´t all these old cars be in a museum of history?

I agree with you that a museum of slavery should cover the different aspects of the whole topic objectively. But how can you know that this would not be the case before you´ve seen the result?

Fine, have a slavery museum, but as you say it should cover the different aspects of the whole topic objectively. The reason I have my doubts that this would happen is for the reason I stated above. Do you really think they would mention the black slavers in africa and their culpability?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
And i stand by what I said, Caligastia: no institution, not even the Constitution, has had more effect on US history. It's worth remembering that the Constitution did nothing about slavery, but slavery provoked a Constitutional crisis and a civil war.

The US government is an institution, do you really think it had less influence on the US than slavery? Im no historical scholar, but I doubt it. I would be interested to see what Chris 62 has to say about this.

As far as I know it was trade that sparked the civil war. Slavery was just used as a moral excuse for the north to attack.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Caligastia
The US government is an institution, do you really think it had less influence on the US than slavery? Im no historical scholar, but I doubt it. I would be interested to see what Chris 62 has to say about this.

As far as I know it was trade that sparked the civil war. Slavery was just used as a moral excuse for the north to attack.

Yes, I suppose all of the actions of the government, taken as a whole over the last 225 years, has had more of an impact. I stand corrected.

But as for slavery palying no role in the Civil War -- where are you getting that?! It was not the sole cause, to be sure, but the Missouri Compromise was not about trade; the Dred Scott decision was not about trade; nobody was bleeding in Bleeding Kansas over trade. Such misconceptions are, perhaps, exactly why we need a slavery museum.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Caligastia
As far as I know it was trade that sparked the civil war. Slavery was just used as a moral excuse for the north to attack.

1) The South attacked the North first
2) While there were numerous other causes of the Civil War, slavery was a central issue. Much of the North's population (not all, or even most, maybe) found it an abbhorent institution. Slavery on the scale it was practiced in the South was, by 1861, quite an anachronism, and was beginning to prove an embarassment internationally.

[BeBMan]

Do you really think they would mention the black slavers in africa and their culpability?

Mhm, I don´t know that. It all depends on how the museum is finally realized.

For example the WWII exhibition in Germany I mentioned was criticised in the press because of some historic errors. The public discussion helped to eliminate the problems and the exhibition is now much more accurate(except for some Neonazis who say German soldiers were the best in the world and not responsible for any warcrimes during WWII ) - a slavery museum in the USA could lead to a similar discussion, and to more knowledge about the topic...

[SlowwHand]

A) Slavery was NOT the instigation of the War Between The States, at least not on the Confederate side.

B) Ellis Island addresses the Irish no more than it addresses African.

C) African tribes sold their people to the States, Irish didn't sell Irish.


D) Drop your Slavery Museum idea.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by BeBro Mhm, I don´t know that. It all depends on how the museum is finally realized.

From my experience of the political atmosphere in the US I would be VERY suprised if there was any mention of the black slavers.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
A) Slavery was NOT the instigation of the War Between The States, at least not on the Confederate side.

Yes, true. The South was defending state's rights and freedom from federal interference. But what were they afraid the Feds were going to interfere with? Southerners' God-given rights to draw out their vowels and marry their sisters? Nope. They were quite rightly worried about federal intervention into slavery.

B) Ellis Island addresses the Irish no more than it addresses African.

It's not about groups, it's about institutions. Immigration has a museum, slavery doesn't.

C) African tribes sold their people to the States, Irish didn't sell Irish.

A good museum would mention that...well, at least the first part.

D) Drop your Slavery Museum idea.

Why? I see no good reason yet to do so.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
A) Slavery was NOT the instigation of the War Between The States, at least not on the Confederate side.

B) Ellis Island addresses the Irish no more than it addresses African.

C) African tribes sold their people to the States, Irish didn't sell Irish.


D) Drop your Slavery Museum idea.

Why should there be a Holocaust museum, then?

10% of the population of your country consists of the descendents of slaves torn from their homes and transported unwillingly across the ocean, after which they were treated like cattle and set to work for the economic gain of the ruling class. Slavery as an American institution is an essential part of your history as a country and as a people, just as the Holocaust is part of German history, colonialism is part of English history and the Inquisition part of Spanish history. The US' economic development came in large part from the sweat of indentured labour, and if we're to have "themed" museums at all, then a Slavery Museum is right up there among top contenders.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


Yes, true. The South was defending state's rights and freedom from federal interference. But what were they afraid the Feds were going to interfere with? Southerners' God-given rights to draw out their vowels and marry their sisters? Nope. They were quite rightly worried about federal intervention into slavery.


It's not about groups, it's about institutions. Immigration has a museum, slavery doesn't.


A good museum would mention that...well, at least the first part.


Why? I see no good reason yet to do so.

You're thinking of Turkey, wiseass.

[Chris 62]

Well, since Cal wants to drag me into another argument, I guess i can add a few comments.

Some advocates of slavery reparations are suspicious of a proposal that comes from the conservative side of the aisle. The debate about reparations, which has become more visible in recent months, won't necessarily boost the bill's chances.

This line shows me this is a political football, the chances of it being a fair and accurate museum is almost nil

''This might tend to defuse the urgency of the reparations movement,'' said Kalonji Olusegun, treasurer the National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America. ''Some folks might think a museum would satisfy the historical tragedy of enslavement and discrimination.''

This movement only exsists among blacks and far left whites, basically, they are reinforceing the feeling of blacks today that they are "owed" something because of past events.
Bullsh1t.

Olusegun is among blacks that want a congressional commission to study the effects of slavery on present-day blacks before specifics of how to make amends are decided. A bill to create the commission has received little consideration after being introduced every session for 12 years.

Not only can't he prove his claim, he wants us to pay to prove it.

For decades, blacks have been divided about the chances that anything would ever happen, and if it did, what that should be. Some say an apology might be enough; many blacks disagree. Some say the government should pay trillions of dollars; others wonder if a museum would be more appropriate and realistic

From the few I have spoken too, many by into the "we are owed" camp, but only want money for urban development and housing improvement, not museums.
Trying to convince them that something that happened to thier great-great grandfathers doesn't entitle them to anything is an excercise in futility. They are brought up in a culture that feeds this, it's the number one plank of most "activists" like Sharpton and Jackson, and so, they also believe.

My opinion is that yes, there was slavery, yes, it was wrong, no, your not owned a damn thing for it, unless you can produce a single living victim of it, OR one who practised it.

The chances it will show how slaves were captured in Africa (by other blacks) or that there were black slave owners is almost nil, more than likely it will try to support the ludicrous claim that slaves built the USA.

As for slavery shaping America, only insofar as it concerned slave owners in the south, and nation politics on state's admitions.
Most people didn't think overmuch about it.

One thing Sloww, I hate to say it, but Firefly is right, State's rights was a smoke screen, they left the union because an abolishonist president (Lincoln) was elected, and they knew that public sentiment in the majority of the USA (ie the north) was running heavily in favor of ending slavery throughout the USA.

It's a shame people didn't listen to Ben Franklin in 1787, he formed an abolishonist group, but couldn't draw the support needed to have slaery ended by the US Constitution.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Ok, I want an Irish immigrant museum.
Let's all be represented.

I believe there is one.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


Ok, I want an Irish immigrant museum.
Let's all be represented.

That's ok with me. I'm part Irish, I would go see it. I really dont care what kind of musuem anyone has. America has thousands of museums dedicated to everthing from cars to fetish. If they want a museum, let them build it. But if one cent of it comes from federal dollars, they should at least try to be fair.

[SlowwHand]

I agree.
American Indians were treated worse than Blacks.
Of course, Oklahoma and Arizona are practically dedicated in mass to museums of sorts.