Slavery Museum - Bad Idea?

[faded glory]

Well.......I guess cause I think the modern civil rights movement is a load bull****...that means Im a racist bigot right?


Im done here...I wish some of you morons would come to your sense's about this whole escipade.

Damn straight, boy.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Now do that shuffle, and fetch me a glass of lemonade while your at it.

"You know, funny thing about those black jelly beans. No matter how you shake 'em, they always end up on the bottom of the bag" - Texaco exec at senior level executive meeting, to a roomful of white males who laughed at the joke til they found out in court that they were recorded, and their lawyers couldn't suppress the recording. 1990's

"Send this one the 'C letter' - we've already got enough ****** managers" - post-it note by Hewlett-Packard HR manager to his secretary, who dutifully sent the "C letter" (we'll keep your resume in our files blah blah) to a management applicant who had the "misfortune" of graduating from a black university. She also sent the post it note. HP's lawyers sent a check. 1980's

I've personally known two black friends who had "KKK" and "******" spraypainted on their homes as a "prank"

I've heard more white folk toss around the term "******" than I can count, but they be careful not to do it in front of the colored chilluns, less'n they get in trouble for it.

Another guy I used to know is a senior paralegal, was office manager of a 140 lawyer law firm, and a professor. When he goes to downtown San Diego to his old law firm (in an expensive suit, silk tie, and looking like any other mid-level professional in his forties except for his white teeth in his black face, people act weird about getting in an elevator with him, stare straight ahead and don't respond if he simply greets someone with a "hello" or "good morning"

Don't tell me that there's no ongoing need for civil rights, from your white cracker ass view up there in Hogwallow, Wisconsin.

There is still plenty of racism and race discrimination against blacks and other minorities, and from what I've seen, more whites whining without basis about alleged reverse discrimination than minorities whining without basis about direct discrimination. The people of whatever color milking the situation to mask their inadequacies are probably not that out of proportion from one race to another.

There are always losers looking for someone else to blame for their problems - those come in all colors. That doesn't mean that their ain't a hell of a lot of real discrimination that goes on all the time.


Now git me that lemonade, boy, don't just stand there.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

To return to the topic at hand, why would anyone assume an anti-slavery museum would make whites feel bad? Whites didn't have slaves; for the most part, Southern middle- and upper-class whites had slaves. I'm white, but long about the time the Civil War started my own people were being emancipated -- from serfdom in Mother Russia. And given how the Irish were treated both by the Brits and when they came over, I would expect their descendents to identify with the slaves, not the masters. So what's the problem? Is it that such a museum would dump on what Southerners like to call (especially when defending the display of the stars and bars) their "culture and heritage"?

If nothing else, it would be a useful counter-balance to the South's innumerable plantation tours, already mentioned by Che. Plantations were forced labor sites, the equivalent of Nazi camps like Plaszow or Soviet gulags. Can you imagine touring a Nazi camp today and hearing only about the splendid parties the commandant threw?

[faded glory]

That there lemonade is very bitter, almost like the truth. Too bitter to taste...


In case you havent noticed, this thing called affirmitive. It rapidly promotes african americans within corporations. Regardless of there productivity. They are promoted simply because the big-wigs at the top, know they will recieve blessing from lawmakers for doing it. Wether or not you call that legal discrimination..or whatever. I dont care. The fact is white people/asians/etc could work a hell of a lot harder and not be promoted...because the black guy got it, why? cause he was black. That is not discrimination you say?

"You know, funny thing about those black jelly beans. No matter how you shake 'em, they always end up on the bottom of the bag" - Texaco exec at senior level executive meeting, to a roomful of white males who laughed at the joke til they found out in court that they were recorded, and their lawyers couldn't suppress the recording. 1990's

Many blacks call themelves "******s" So now, when a white says it...its suddenly offensive? Whats this? A Double-Standerd of oppurtunism I smell!

Another guy I used to know is a senior paralegal, was office manager of a 140 lawyer law firm, and a professor. When he goes to downtown San Diego to his old law firm (in an expensive suit, silk tie, and looking like any other mid-level professional in his forties except for his white teeth in his black face, people act weird about getting in an elevator with him, stare straight ahead and don't respond if he simply greets someone with a "hello" or "good morning"

Oh yes.....and this has what to do with AA now? Im not denying people dont discriminate. But lets get one thing straight, that is not the root of all injustice.

I've personally known two black friends who had "KKK" and "******" spraypainted on their homes as a "prank"

Ya and if you have ever driven through the Bronx (south in particular) you will see the graffiti all over...Know what it says? "Die White boy! Die Jew boy!" Really......if you dont believe take a trip down there.... I havent been in awhile. But in the 80's it was everywhere.

I've personally known two black friends who had "KKK" and "******" spraypainted on their homes as a "prank"

Don't tell me that there's no ongoing need for civil rights, from your white cracker ass view up there in Hogwallow, Wisconsin.

Oh ya, white cracker my ass Oh look! Your ignorance is showing.....Better zip it up!

There is still plenty of racism and race discrimination against blacks and other minorities, and from what I've seen, more whites whining without basis about alleged reverse discrimination than minorities whining without basis about direct discrimination. The people of whatever color milking the situation to mask their inadequacies are probably not that out of proportion from one race to another.

Ya.......and having the government santion it is ok, right? Thats what affirmitive action is? Its denying the person more qualified...for a person of color. Hell...go talk to Sandy Wienburg of Coca-Cola. Poor lady waited 20 years to get a promotion. But the management: Ooops...theres this diversity law we have to abide bye. Sorry...ask again in 20 years!

I've heard more white folk toss around the term "******" than I can count, but they be careful not to do it in front of the colored chilluns, less'n they get in trouble for it.

Ya and there are more black people who say it then you can shake a stick at.....so its kind ofabsurd to say we cannot say it. When they say it...In fact, its bull****. I say what I want. (Not that I say it anyway

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
To return to the topic at hand, why would anyone assume an anti-slavery museum would make whites feel bad? Whites didn't have slaves; for the most part, Southern middle- and upper-class whites had slaves. I'm white, but long about the time the Civil War started my own people were being emancipated -- from serfdom in Mother Russia. And given how the Irish were treated both by the Brits and when they came over, I would expect their descendents to identify with the slaves, not the masters. So what's the problem? Is it that such a museum would dump on what Southerners like to call (especially when defending the display of the stars and bars) their "culture and heritage"?

Well, if you haven't figured it out, I'm a southern boy. Most of the whites here (Cal's a Kiwi) who have an issue with the idea of this museum are not southern. Slavery IS part of southern (and not just southern) "culture and heritage" and the truth about it needs to be acknowledged.

Indentured and bonded servitude should also be covered in it as well, because the whole reason that we had African slaves here at all is because the white people scraped out of debtor's prison and lured with promises of passage from the mother country simply died off too fast when they were worked in the fields. African slaves survived much better, so they became the human "commodity" in demand moreso than white indentureds, who generally died so quickly the owner couldn't recover the cost of the voyage.

As far as the Stars and Bars, that needn't be defended, it is a First Amendment right, but I think good sense and simple courtesy should constrain where it is shown and in what circumstance.

I think there is room for concern in that many of the proponents of this museum are also prominent proponents of the perenniel reparation whine-fest, so no doubt many of them have their own agendas. IMO, the idea of the museum should be supported, but with a strict emphasis on historical accuracy and comprehensive treatment of the entirety of the issue.

If anyone is actually interested in slavery in the US, I highly recommend "Slaves in the Family" by Edward Ball.

If nothing else, it would be a useful counter-balance to the South's innumerable plantation tours, already mentioned by Che. Plantations were forced labor sites, the equivalent of Nazi camps like Plaszow or Soviet gulags. Can you imagine touring a Nazi camp today and hearing only about the splendid parties the commandant threw?

Nice cheap shot, but there's a hell of a lot of archaeology going on in the south currently (by southern and southern educated archaeologists) looking at the ordinary lives of slaves and their roles in the plantation economy.

There's plenty of people who believe in or want to believe in a sanitary, whitewashed view of the past, but plenty of others trying to figuratively and literally dig up as much as we can learn about the way things were.

While you're on the subject of Nazi camps and gulags, let's not just concentrate on southern plantations and slaves - textile mills, coal mines, painting radium on watch dials, company towns, payment in scrip, etc. - there is a very broad scope for the most brutal and callous forms of exploitation of the laboring class in the US and western Europe.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
"Send this one the 'C letter' - we've already got enough ****** managers" - post-it note by Hewlett-Packard HR manager to his secretary, who dutifully sent the "C letter" (we'll keep your resume in our files blah blah) to a management applicant who had the "misfortune" of graduating from a black university. She also sent the post it note. HP's lawyers sent a check. 1980's

ROFL. Gotta love that secretary. I assume she did actually do it on purpose?

[faded glory]

"You know, funny thing about those black jelly beans. No matter how you shake 'em, they always end up on the bottom of the bag" - Texaco exec at senior level executive meeting, to a roomful of white males who laughed at the joke til they found out in court that they were recorded, and their lawyers couldn't suppress the recording. 1990's

Oh ya.....If I had a dime everytime all sharpton has blamed the whites and jews for making the ghetto. I'de be a rich man..

Here is one of his more famous quotes.

"When the white man was running around in caves and fighting wars. And the asian was learning how to farm rice. The Black man was building pyramids and whole empires. Without a doubt ; we are the stronger of the two!"




Ive even heard that guy praise hitler. Yet why does nobody get on his case? Huh ? Tell me!? Why?

[orange]

I agree that racist policies to correct past racism is absolutely wrong, but Faded Glory you're being downright ignorant with some of your statements.

May we all one day be colorblind.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by faded glory
That there lemonade is very bitter, almost like the truth. Too bitter to taste...

Maybe you reached for the wrong glass. Where'd you get that "lemonade" from, anyways?

In case you havent noticed, this thing called affirmitive. It rapidly promotes african americans within corporations. Regardless of there productivity. They are promoted simply because the big-wigs at the top, know they will recieve blessing from lawmakers for doing it. Wether or not you call that legal discrimination..or whatever. I dont care. The fact is white people/asians/etc could work a hell of a lot harder and not be promoted...because the black guy got it, why? cause he was black. That is not discrimination you say?

I've worked for two fortune 100 companies, each with over 25,000 employees on the site where I've worked, and worked at/been a consultant to several dozen other companies ranging from a few to a few thousand employees. Those type of quotas and quota based promotions are rare. There is a hell of a lot of verbage about every case where it happens, and lots of times, the people *****ing the loudest would never have got the job anyway.

You're so semi-literate I can't see you ever getting past being a gas-pumper, Steverino.

Many blacks call themelves "******s" So now, when a white says it...its suddenly offensive? Whats this? A Double-Standerd of oppurtunism I smell!

Many do not ever use the term. Perhaps your knowledge of black people is limited to watching MTV videos?

Oh yes.....and this has what to do with AA now? Im not denying people dont discriminate. But lets get one thing straight, that is not the root of all injustice.

We weren't talking AA, boy, I was talking about endemic and routine racism in people's daily lives.

Ya and if you have ever driven through the Bronx (south in particular) you will see the graffiti all over...Know what it says? "Die White boy! Die Jew boy!" Really......if you dont believe take a trip down there.... I havent been in awhile. But in the 80's it was everywhere.

So one fairly recent phenomenon excuses a legacy going back to "keeping 'em out of our neighborhoods?" Good job, boy. I don't remember many white people in south Bronx, but it's been a while since I was there. Were these messages of brotherly love put on white people's and jewish people's homes? Or just the routine chicken**** grafitti in the neighborhood? And sorry, o clueless cracker, but spraypainting "KKK" on the door of a black family's home in the middle of the night in a "white neighborhood" sends one hell of a different message than random tagging in a ****hole like the south Bronx.

Oh ya, white cracker my ass Oh look! Your ignorance is showing.....Better zip it up!

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and it's duck season, then it's a duck. Or a gas-pumper.

Ya.......and having the government santion it is ok, right? Thats what affirmitive action is? Its denying the person more qualified...for a person of color. Hell...go talk to Sandy Wienburg of Coca-Cola. Poor lady waited 20 years to get a promotion. But the management: Ooops...theres this diversity law we have to abide bye. Sorry...ask again in 20 years!

Well, if it took her 20 years to get to someone's promotion list, she couldn't have had much on the ball. People fasttrack to CEO and CFO in not much more time than 20 years, and sometimes less. And the only reason for a racial preference in promotion in current law is because the company got nailed for past acts of discrimination in it's hiring and promotion practices. Most companies don't have that problem.

Ya and there are more black people who say it then you can shake a stick at.....so its kind ofabsurd to say we cannot say it. When they say it...In fact, its bull****. I say what I want. (Not that I say it anyway

There is a slight difference. It takes more than a two-digit IQ to figure out though, so I won't hold your lack of understanding of such subtleties against you.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by ravagon

ROFL. Gotta love that secretary. I assume she did actually do it on purpose?

Yep. Stuck right to the "C letter" in the HR manager's own handwriting.

Originally posted by faded glory


Oh ya.....If I had a dime everytime all sharpton has blamed the whites and jews for making the ghetto. I'de be a rich man..

Here is one of his more famous quotes.

"When the white man was running around in caves and fighting wars. And the asian was learning how to farm rice. The Black man was building pyramids and whole empires. Without a doubt ; we are the stronger of the two!"




Ive even heard that guy praise hitler. Yet why does nobody get on his case? Huh ? Tell me!? Why?

Hell, are you kidding? Al Sharpton is just about universally despised outside his little following. He's got a hell of a lot less of a following than people like Falwell. But more than Tom Metzger, so Al fits about where he should on the idiocy scale.

[faded glory]

First off mike.....Im not a gas pumper, I am a Printing Plate Technician But I have pumped gas before ( )


now then.....as for the rest..I have 0 energy to respond and I find the bed alot more appealing right now It is almost 2:00 am and I should have been in bed 4 hours ago.....ugh theres this thing called sleap apnea which bothers me.


anyway.....im off

[MichaeltheGreat]

No problem. Get some rest.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Well, if you haven't figured it out, I'm a southern boy. Most of the whites here (Cal's a Kiwi) who have an issue with the idea of this museum are not southern. Slavery IS part of southern (and not just southern) "culture and heritage" and the truth about it needs to be acknowledged.

Didn't know you were from the South, but that's just my point: most people here who are afraid that a slavery museum would somehow insult them seem to think they have more in common with Southern slaveholders than with slaves. I doubt that's true, unless you use skin color as your primary determinant of who you resemble.

Indentured and bonded servitude should also be covered in it as well, because the whole reason that we had African slaves here at all is because the white people scraped out of debtor's prison and lured with promises of passage from the mother country simply died off too fast when they were worked in the fields. African slaves survived much better, so they became the human "commodity" in demand moreso than white indentureds, who generally died so quickly the owner couldn't recover the cost of the voyage.

As far as the Stars and Bars, that needn't be defended, it is a First Amendment right, but I think good sense and simple courtesy should constrain where it is shown and in what circumstance.

I think there is room for concern in that many of the proponents of this museum are also prominent proponents of the perenniel reparation whine-fest, so no doubt many of them have their own agendas. IMO, the idea of the museum should be supported, but with a strict emphasis on historical accuracy and comprehensive treatment of the entirety of the issue.

If anyone is actually interested in slavery in the US, I highly recommend "Slaves in the Family" by Edward Ball.

Agreed on all points, especially the reading recommendation; I read it last year at my wife's urging (she uses it in one of her courses). It's terrific

Nice cheap shot, but there's a hell of a lot of archaeology going on in the south currently (by southern and southern educated archaeologists) looking at the ordinary lives of slaves and their roles in the plantation economy.

There's plenty of people who believe in or want to believe in a sanitary, whitewashed view of the past, but plenty of others trying to figuratively and literally dig up as much as we can learn about the way things were.

While you're on the subject of Nazi camps and gulags, let's not just concentrate on southern plantations and slaves - textile mills, coal mines, painting radium on watch dials, company towns, payment in scrip, etc. - there is a very broad scope for the most brutal and callous forms of exploitation of the laboring class in the US and western Europe.

Didn't mean it as a cheap shot; maybe I went too far. But the fact is that I've been on several plantation tours, and slavery is always white-washed (pardon the pun). Even at the plantation that's run by the Williamsburg people, where the whole point is to show slave life, the darker truths are supressed (or so I learned from a William and Mary grad student I befriended there, who was immensely frustrated by what facts she was not allowed to tell the public). Plantations are important historical sites, but what's recovered there doesn't seem to make it into the presentations to the public. This is why the living history museum at Lowell, Mass., which doesn't sugar-coat the horrors of mill town life, is a great museum.

We're largely in agreementt, though, and I respect your positions in this thread. Hope I didn't step on your toes.

[Dis]

lol

good luck preventing it from being burned down

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Maybe he is just tired of the new American saying "look at me, I'm a victim".

And a prime example are white people complaining about how they are victims of reverse discrimination. It is far easier to say "I didn't get into university because of I'm a victim of affirmative action" then to take responsibility for not studying hard enough. It is easier to say "I didn't get promoted because I'm not a black lesbian" rather than working harder for the next promotion.

Affirmative action covers a small percentage of the available jobs at any given moment. To sit there and complain about reverse discrimination is just a cop-out.