Slavery Museum - Bad Idea?

[David Floyd]

1) The South attacked the North first

You couldn't be more wrong.

First of all, I assume you are talking about Fort Sumter, which is the most obvious example.

When South Carolina seceded, South Carolina ordered all US troops out of its borders, of which the troops in Ft. Sumter were within. Both the commander of the fort, and the US government, refused to withdraw its troops, and further, President Buchanan ordered the resupply of Ft. Sumter.

After an ultimatum for withdrawal passed, South Carolina troops under PGT Beauregard fired on the fort, killing NO US troops, and forcing the surrender of Fort Sumter.

However, the aggression was on the part of the United States, by refusing to withdraw from South Carolina when ordered to do so, after the legal and proper secession of South Carolina. Further, ordering the resupply of the fort was another instance of aggression. In fact, these actions constituted valid acts of war, and thus South Carolina and a valid casus beli against the United States, a casus beli which was soon gained by all other states of the CSA upon the invasion of Virginia and the subsequent First Battle of Manassas (or Bull Run, to the Yankees).

Sorry to get off on a tangent, but what you said about the South attacking first was simply a case of history being rewritten by the victors, and had no basis in fact.

[Tingkai]

Ideally, a slavery museum should include a history of slavery throughout the world in all its forms. It should mention that slavery continues to this day. It is not history. It is part of out present.

The slavery museum should also explain how slavery created the conditions that led whites to consider blacks as sub-human. These attitudes did not end with the abolishing of slavery. The continuation of the slave owner mentality among whites explains why whites were willing to murder blacks in public well into the 20th Century, and that the killers were able to get away with it. The slaveowner mentality explains why blacks were denied their civil rights until the 1960s.

The museum should explain how slavery created a cycle of poverty that contunues to this day. This should be done not as means for finding excuses, but rather to find the root causes so that we can then find solutions.

The museum should mention how a few blacks sold other blacks and that a few blacks oppressed their own people, but it should also state that this in no way justifies nor minimizes the evils committed by whites against blacks.

In other words, the slavery museum should not whitewash the history of slavery just to make white or black people feel better. It should be controversial. It should make us think.

[Tingkai]

duplicate post

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Caligastia


The US government is an institution, do you really think it had less influence on the US than slavery? Im no historical scholar, but I doubt it. I would be interested to see what Chris 62 has to say about this.

Slavery was the largest single driver of the US economy in the first half of the 19th century - about 75% of US export earnings came from cotton and textiles.

Six million and a few people (out of about 35 million total), the entire basis of the Federal-state issues in the Constitution (otherwise, it would have never been ratified), etc. etc. Literally the entire development of the US and its government and society would have been different.

As far as I know it was trade that sparked the civil war. Slavery was just used as a moral excuse for the north to attack.

Trade, AND SLAVERY, and fundamental political rivalry over control or subservience to the Federal government. Ol' Abe engaged in an incredible amount of manipulation and machinating to tweak the northern economy after succession - so much so that FDR looked lazy in comparison. Y'all had the Homestead Act of 1862, (which is why there's so many Krauts and Swedes from Wisoconsin through the Dakotas) the transcontinental railroad (impetus provided by the War of Yankee Agression), and increased transontinental migration, ongoing deficit spending and paper currency, and the largest single economic expansion in US history as a direct result of the war, and the loss of contribution of the slave-based southern economy.

Krazyhorse - Wrong. US troops fired on southern civilians on January 8, 1861, outside Fort Barrancas in Florida, more than three months before Fort Sumter. And Sumter was fired on because of an armed resupply mission which was untertaken while pretending to negotiate for a peaceful transition of the Fort to South Carolina control. That resupply mission was conjoined with an armed resupply, reinforcement, and beachhead establishment mission to Fort Pickens in Florida at the same time - Lincoln wanted the public attention on Sumter, while the more serious armed threat was delivered at Pickens. With the bad faith demonstrated by a fraudulent "negotiation," combined with the size of the Sumter "resupply" flotilla, and the known presence of the armed force to reinforce and expand from Pickens, the South responded by firing warning shots across the bows of the Yankee ships entering the sovereign state of South Carolina's port of Charleston. (and yes, South Carolina predated the United States, so it had a valid claim of sovereignty as an independent state)

The Yankees then responded to warning shots by firing directly at the Charleston harbor defenses.

So guess again, the Yankees started it.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Tingkai
In other words, the slavery museum should not whitewash the history of slavery just to make white or black people feel better. It should be controversial. It should make us think.

Easily the most intelligent thing said on this thread. Couldn't agree more.

As for Cali being a racist... I see a pattern from his posts too, but racist is awfully strong for it. The pattern I see is of another "angry young white male" who sees a pattern of discrimination and oppression against whites. Doesn't make him a racist. Just confused.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The museum should mention how a few blacks sold other blacks and that a few blacks oppressed their own people,

Take out the words "a few" and I agree, but I would be very suprised if mention was made of this.

Originally posted by Tingkai
but it should also state that this in no way justifies nor minimizes the evils committed by whites against blacks.

Is it really necessary to say that? Arent people intelligent enough to draw that conclusion for themselves?

Originally posted by Tingkai
In other words, the slavery museum should not whitewash the history of slavery just to make white or black people feel better. It should be controversial. It should make us think.

I dont think controversy should be one of the goals of the museum. It should be accurate and truthful, and if that causes controversy so be it.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Guynemer


Easily the most intelligent thing said on this thread. Couldn't agree more.

As for Cali being a racist... I see a pattern from his posts too, but racist is awfully strong for it. The pattern I see is of another "angry young white male" who sees a pattern of discrimination and oppression against whites. Doesn't make him a racist. Just confused.

Im not confused, I know what I see.

You also have to realize that I am less tactful on the internet than I am in RL. I dont discuss these issues in the same way in person.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Caligastia

Is it really necessary to say that? Arent people intelligent enough to draw that conclusion for themselves?

Unfortunately, for some people the answer is no.

[faded glory]

Dont worry Cali, I too am among the millions of others who are agigitated with the modern day civil rights movement.


More of a "Special Rights" and "Reverse Discrimination" movement


I am glad more and more agree with me these days

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by faded glory
Dont worry Cali, I too am among the millions of others who are agigitated with the modern day civil rights movement.


More of a "Special Rights" and "Reverse Discrimination" movement


I am glad more and more agree with me these days

Me too

[Guynemer]

I want you both to answer one question, right now.

Would you rather be black?

[faded glory]

Sure,that way I can get promoted just for being black and not on my work credintials/prouctivity.


Or if Im a young black teen, I can sign up for college, get the govenment to pay for it, and get to start with 10 credits above all the other white/hispanic boofheads.


Or, I can rob conveniant stores and get a jury thrown out because I think they are racist.....then I get a leener sentence

Or, when all else fails,I can go to the NAACP and say someone discriminated against me, and file a frivolous lawsuit.


Sorry.....

[Guynemer]

Wow. Your ignorance of the realities of being black are astounding.

[faded glory]

So your going to tell me Affirmitive action, Minority College grants, and Johhny Cochran are all part of my "Ignorance"

[MichaeltheGreat]

Damn straight, boy.