A breach of the Geneva Convention?

[Bereta_Eder]

Can someone answer me that one though: Why the hell in Cuba?!!!

Surely the US has secure places inside its terrotory so why there?

To piss off Fidel?

And how come the US has a base (the Gouantanamo?) in Cuba of all places?! How did that come about?

[Faeelin]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Can someone answer me that one though: Why the hell in Cuba?!!!

Surely the US has secure places inside its terrotory so why there?

To piss off Fidel?

And how come the US has a base (the Gouantanamo?) in Cuba of all places?! How did that come about?

It's on a hostile island, surrounded by american soldiers who are surrounded by cuban soldiers with 234k land mines inbetween. Hard to escape.

Plus, in the USA, there are chances that al queda members here could organize an escape.

And yes, we enjoy giving Fidel the one finger salute.

[Dr. Nick]

It said at the end of the article I think that it was to avoid them from using recourses of American law. As they're in Cuban territory...

[Drake Tungsten]

The US leased the Guantanamo base from Cuba a long time ago, when we still had friendly relations with the country. America was at Gitmo long before Castro came to power.

As for all this discussion of the Geneva Convention, does anyone have any actual proof that the US has violated the GC? Or is this all just unsupported speculation? I for one haven't heard of any US actions that I would consider banned by the GC. Making prisoners stay in outdoor cages certainly isn't cruel. Maybe if the cages were in Alaska, but not in Cuba.

[DanS]

Hi All--

Much of this thread revolves around exposing the detainees to the elements. I had problems with that too until I realized that Cuba has absolutely beautiful weather all of the time (well, unless they have a hurricane, but this isn't the season for that), so they aren't roughing it at all. Probably 80 degrees during the day, every day. 65 degrees or so during the evening.

That's more than humane, that's vacation!

edit: Havana weather right now--79 degrees F.

[Bereta_Eder]

A Briton is among the 20 al-Qaida and
Taliban prisoners being held at the U.S. military base in
Guantanamo, Cuba, the Foreign Office said Saturday.
«We can confirm that the U.S. authorities have informed
us that one U.K. national has been transferred to
Guantanamo,» a spokeswoman said on customary condition of
anonymity.


And there is also Walker. There also is an australian national.

Anybody else from other western countries?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by DanS
Hi All--

Much of this thread revolves around exposing the detainees to the elements. I had problems with that too until I realized that Cuba has absolutely beautiful weather all of the time (well, unless they have a hurricane, but this isn't the season for that), so they aren't roughing it at all. Probably 80 degrees during the day, every day. 65 degrees or so during the evening.

That's more than humane, that's vacation!

edit: Havana weather right now--79 degrees F.

DanS, no one argues about how beautiful Cuba is.

The point is wether it is acceptable for a country to hold prisoners exposed to the elements in cages. It is a matter of civility.

Now you are going to tell me it's better for their health than being inside a building where the air is bad...

That is not the point.

I stick with my modernized middle ages opinion about giving the american public a way to vent their anger at them

[Ted Striker]

Chris,

Any "reports" of the prisoners being treated poorly can be chalked up to the usual press BS, inventing a story when none really exists.

That pretty much sums it up.

paiktis,

I think that putting them in cages is the modern equivalant of having a thief walking with his head and hands in a wooden box amonst the streets like it was in the middle ages.

That's not even close nor is it even fair. In those boxes, the purpose of them was to shame and punish the person in the box.

The purpose of what the US is doing to the prisoners is PREVENTION. Those guys would like nothing better than to take out some people and die doing it, so why give them the chance.

And again, how is a cage different from a cell? They aren't going to stay there the whole time, just while they are on the boat.

Maybe one of you so-called "humanitarians" ought to go serve as a guard on that ship and then see how you like it when those guys are treated "better."

Look in a prison and see how they transport violent offenders. It's EXACTLY the same, except in the prisons, they have the luxury of outnumbering the offender 5 to 1, and if something goes wrong they can call for backup. There are damn good reasons for having all those restraints, and even a prisoner with all of his limbs restrained who is barely able to walk can still kill a person.

Here on the ship, the guards are being way outnumbered, so if they feel they need to take extra precautions, by all means let them.

My country has done absolutley nothing wrong.

And some of you could give a damn about the prisoners, it's just fun to have something to criticize the US about, eh?

[Shi Huangdi]

Geneva Covnention Shmeneva Convention. That conveniton did not forsee the type of warfare the terrorists are waging. I couldn't care if these terrorists are given their human rights or not.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Calm down Ted. As I've stated, I've no objection to restraints being used in transit. In fact, in the replies I see below this answer box, and those I remember outside of it, I don't think anyone has objected to this.

It's the treatment of those already on Cuban soil that I wrote about- something that could be avoided by 30 minutes work with a few sheets of chipboard. The responses I've received about those can be summed up as "It isn't happening and it's not that bad and they deserve it". I still don't see what's being gained by this treatment, whereas what's being lost is blatantly obvious.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
And again, how is a cage different from a cell? They aren't going to stay there the whole time, just while they are on the boat.

Then why is DanS talking about the Cuban weather?

I had the impression they were to spend their time on Cuba in the cages?

During transport it can be justified, no objection there.

Geneva Covnention Shmeneva Convention. That conveniton did not forsee the type of warfare the terrorists are waging. I couldn't care if these terrorists are given their human rights or not.

No comment.

[Ted Striker]

I still don't see what's being gained by this treatment

What's being gained is the safety of the guards. They are outnumbered and unlike most of the prisoners, actually want to live.

Given Al-Queda prisoners track record of wanting to kill themselves, they treatement they are being given is not only just but practical. I guarantee they are just dying to kill themselves and take some people out in the process:

were described by task force commander Marine Brigadier General Michael Lehnert as the "worst elements" of the al-Qaeda terrorist network.

Some appeared to resist as they got off the plane.

At their detention camp, known as Camp X-ray, the prisoners will be isolated in temporary, individual cells with walls of chain-link fence and metal roofs, where they will sleep on mats under halogen floodlights.

A new prison is being built at Guantanamo Bay to hold up to 2,000 prisoners behind razor wire.

So the US is so inhumane we took the time to actually build them a new prison? I bet we are building it so we can use new and improved, advanced torture methods in it? Yay!!!

Amnesty International says it has heard reports the men were chained to their seats, hooded and sedated during the 8,000-mile flight.

This has been standard practice for transporting violent prisoners for years and years. There is a damn good reason for doing it too.

It is reported that the prisoners had their beards shaved, for reasons of hygiene, prior to the 27-hour journey, a measure the ICRC says might constitute a breach of their human dignity under the convention.

They are complaining because THEY SHAVED THEIR BEARDS??? GIVE ME A ****ING BREAK!!!!

This article is totally reaching, and like Chris said, making news where there is no news.

[Saint Marcus]

I'm not surprised the US results to these means in the war against terrorism. Frankly, I expected a lot worse.

Question: what is the US going to do with all those POWs? It's obvious the verdict (guilty that is) is already known long before the actual trials. It's also obvious the POWs won't get any rights in US courts or tribunals. No questions there. But what will the penalty be? Will they all be executed after being found guilty? The allies didn't even do that after WW2, when most nazis weren't executed. Does someone have any ideas what will be done with them?


Anyway, once again, no surprises so far. I will be surprised when capital punishment isn't used (for a change), though we all know that won't happen. How civilized the US is huh? I actually doubt the rest of the west is much better though, but the line between what is civilized and what isn't is very, very thin line.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Mark L
I'm not surprised the US results to these means in the war against terrorism. Frankly, I expected a lot worse.

Why? What international law have we violated?

[Monk]

Shi;

Geneva Covnention Shmeneva Convention. That conveniton did not forsee the type of warfare the terrorists are waging.

Probably not, but that doesn't change things. When you agree to a convention, you're supposed to actually abide the conditions set forth.

Ted Striker;

So the US is so inhumane we took the time to actually build them a new prison? I bet we are building it so we can use new and improved, advanced torture methods in it? Yay!!!

"We" are not doing anything, the American government is. But if conditions are acceptable, can you explain why there seems to be unwillingness to use a prison on American soil?

DinoDoc;

Why? What international law have we violated?

Again, you did not do anything, your gov't did. It might seem like a pet peeve of mine, and it probably is, but I'm confident that the usage of "we" in cases such as that adds to the us-and-them mentality.