Who's the Greatest Satan?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

You can add 100000+ in Yugoslavia, over the 50 years, even though we were probably the best communism in the world (like Carlsberg )

[Transcend]

Only 20 million in USSR? I thought as many had died during the 3 years civil war following the October Revolution.

How did you get the 65 million for China? I thought even 50 million might be exaggerated.

You can get the "Black Book of Communism" in every Barnes & Nobles. I have skimed through that book.

[bogi]

No doubt about it Germany. Produced the most wars in history.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by bogi
No doubt about it Germany. Produced the most wars in history.

Pretty impressive for a country who's only been around for 130 years.




I wasn't really looking for the cruelest nation (That wouldn't be fair - every nation would deserve a running in that poll. And in my opinion, they'd all deserve the title), I was looking for the most imperialist or destructive nation.

[- Groucho -]

Originally posted by Dominikos
On a sidenote, you know, whenever one drives across the border from Canada into the United States, it so obvious that the urban landscape changes from clean to dirty.

Hey, I'm a Canadian who lives in the US and that comparison is unfair. Most of the Canadian population lives within spitting distance of the American border so it makes sense that the roads in that area are well kept up. But for the US, the Northern border is the hinterland (sorry, Buffalo).

To give you a counter-point, just outside of New York heading up into Connecticut is the Merritt Parkway. It is one of the most beautiful stretches of road I've ever driven on and it beats anything I've seen in Canada. The overpasses were designed by Frederick Law Olmstead (of Central Park fame) and the landscape with the rolling hills and deciduous forests is incredible.

Your main point is blatantly ridiculous. Sure the US is a bully sometimes and has done some pretty nasty things (recuerda Allende!), but it is also the home of the Peace Corps. On the whole, the US definitely tips the scale toward more good than bad and it isn't even close to historical great satan status. If it were, Khandahar would have been nuked and you would be "disappeared" if you ever tried to enter the US because of your postings here (not that the Internet would even exist in its present form if the US were the "Great Satan").

[Dis]

come on guys get out and vote for the U.S. we are losing our lead.

remember your vote counts.

vote U.S.!!!

[Ramo]

I'd say that the Mongols easily win. A single, relatively small civilization managed to utterly destroy many of the most populous cities in the world. I've heard body counts attributed to the Mongols, during their period of dominance, on the order of 4*10^7, truly an atrocious number considering the technological sophistication and population densities for Mongols of time period.

In Mongol controlled lands, the roads were patrolled agaist brigands, and trade was permitted.

And in Soviet controlled lands, subsidies were sent around the empire, bolstering the industry of these vassal states. Does that justify Soviet conquest and rule?

built their cities over the ruins of Carthaginians ones.

Like Mexico City?

The Spanish had this obsession for converting people to Christianism, but at least they were never obsessed with exterminating them because they had been their enemies!

Like in Hispaniola, where a population somewhere between 3*10^5 and 3*10^6 was completely eliminated in about 60 years? Of course, their reason for exterminating the natives was soley because they were greedy bastards.

[faded glory]

USSR was the worse. Read Lenin's own words above

They were mass-butchers...they made the nazi's look like good people.


I think the toll of suffering is measured in deaths/forced Poverty. Without a doubt, the USSR wins. Of course China could be 1st, but the country has greatly changed its ways since the days of Mao.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Transcend
The Euros are responsible for the destruction of Native Americans. Remember, the mass immigration to the US happened during the 19th century, the same time during which Natives were annihilated. Also, it was the settlers, rather than the army, who destroyed the natives.

How could they be Euros after they moved to the US and became citizens?

IIRC correctly it's the army that did the damage. The Natives weren't exactly helpless.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Lars-E
Here are the hard facts:
U.S.S.R.: 20 mill deaths
China: 65 mill
Vietnam: 1 mill
North Korea: 2 mill
Cambodia: 2 mill
Eastern Europe: 1 mill
Latin America: 150 tho
Africa: 1,7 mill
Afghanistan: 1,5 mill
The international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power: about 10 tho

The total approaches 100 million killed.

Where did you get these numbers?

[faded glory]

I watch a show on PBS about Marx and Communism in General and they came out with the exact same numbers of communist's dusting there own populace:100,000,000

[faded glory]

Oh ya. N.Korea should be 4.2 million. The last 5 years of famine

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Where did you get these numbers?

Asking for supporting facts? Oh the irony!

[Lars-E]

Originally posted by DaShi
Asking for supporting facts? Oh the irony!

You're full of it aren't you?

Urban Ranger, I got the numbers from "The Black Book of Communism - Crimes Terror Repression" several authors (1997), Harvard University Press. This is the English version. My French needs improving...

That book is a classic which has been much debated in Europe. The leftwing extremists say it's about comparing nazism and communism. I have read most of it and those extremists are twisting the truth again. What else is new? There is just a few lines that compare numbers - the amount of ppl killed by nazis versus those killed by communists. As we know the communists were a lot more bloodthirsty. The book is a historic documentation of the atrocities of communism.

[bogi]

Originally posted by Osweld


Pretty impressive for a country who's only been around for 130 years.




I wasn't really looking for the cruelest nation (That wouldn't be fair - every nation would deserve a running in that poll. And in my opinion, they'd all deserve the title), I was looking for the most imperialist or destructive nation.

Names change but that region was always Deustchland.


Cross the Orda in Europe and go East. Germany was the most destructive nation in the world. Culture,history,people, all destroyed by the Germans.Cities like Minsk,Warsaw,and Rami.Imperialist look at Germany Again with Prussia and Bavaria.