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**RedFred** · January 9, 2002, 16:17

Oh dear! And I was expecting a thread about the NHL. Only one Satan in the whole league far as I know.

**Hoek** · January 9, 2002, 17:18

this is ridiculous. How exactly is it that the United States is on this list? As bad as some of the things we've done have been, it does not belong on this list. I would say either the USSR, Communist China, or the British empire, but to put the US up there as "the most ruthless, etc." is a gross exaggeration.

**General Ludd** · January 9, 2002, 17:47

Originally posted by Hoek
this is ridiculous. How exactly is it that the United States is on this list? As bad as some of the things we've done have been, it does not belong on this list. I would say either the USSR, Communist China, or the British empire, but to put the US up there as "the most ruthless, etc." is a gross exaggeration.

'tis why it's a poll - if you don't think it's fit for the title of 'Great Satan', don't vote for it.

**Transcend** · January 9, 2002, 18:04

The Euros are responsible for the destruction of Native Americans. Remember, the mass immigration to the US happened during the 19th century, the same time during which Natives were annihilated. Also, it was the settlers, rather than the army, who destroyed the natives.

To say Spaniards did not destroy civilizations is a complete joke, can anyone remember what happened to the Aztec capital Tenochtitlan? If there is any country who needs to demand reparations from Spain, it's Mexico.

Again, all 'great' civilizations today have committed major crimes in their past. Is there a 'great' civilization who hasn't done anything bad?

**Alexander's Horse** · January 9, 2002, 19:14

Originally posted by Hoek
this is ridiculous. How exactly is it that the United States is on this list? As bad as some of the things we've done have been, it does not belong on this list. I would say either the USSR, Communist China, or the British empire, but to put the US up there as "the most ruthless, etc." is a gross exaggeration.

No point in complaining - I think its mainly Americans who are voting for Uncle Sam

**DinoDoc** · January 9, 2002, 19:16

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
No point in complaining - I think its mainly Americans who are voting for Uncle Sam

We have to be #1 in all things, you know.

**Caligastia** · January 9, 2002, 19:55

The South Park satan is pretty cool, but of a queer though...

**Alexander's Horse** · January 9, 2002, 19:57

I think we should all be glad that the current Great Satan is pretty benign. Imagine if it was a European superpower

**Sirotnikov** · January 9, 2002, 20:08

Originally posted by paiktis22
according to? Jews? - Asterix it was
Roman Empire

Thanks, you made it easier to vote!

If not for pesky romans trashing judea, palestinians would have no case nowdays!

**Alexander's Horse** · January 9, 2002, 20:28

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

If not for pesky romans trashing judea, palestinians would have no case nowdays!

Yes they would have - the Palestinians have been there since ancient times

There was a never a purely Jewish state in Palestine and there never will be.

**Faeelin** · January 9, 2002, 21:56

Originally posted by Dominikos
SlowwHand, you are more than welcome to think what you like about me, but America's foreign policy and presence is not particularily welcomed in most countries. When you have gone to the point of calling me an idiot, then at least have the courtesy of telling me why, otherwise your comments don't make any sense.

Americans are modern day Romans, and America, just like the Roman Empire, looks good in appearance but is permeated with rot and decay.

On a sidenote, you know, whenever one drives across the border from Canada into the United States, it so obvious that the urban landscape changes from clean to dirty.

------------------
~Emperor Dominik~

So you're saying America's foreign policies are equal to nazi germany, the rape of nanking, the destruction of gaul and carthage, the forced conversion of native americans and the destruction of their culture as well as the inquisition, and the soviet union's oppression of eastern europe?

Oh, and about modern day rome: I've heard the analogy before. We don't have leaders putting their horses in senate, so we're okay.
Also, I'm suprised you can still believe that arguement after recent events.

**poison_flower** · January 10, 2002, 02:03

I think you really have a point there. I don't think it is even possible to measure human suffering.

Originally posted by Dominikos

It is silly to measure cruelty based on the number of people killed.

**poison_flower** · January 10, 2002, 02:05

Ever read Kozol? I think he is the main reason I voted for the US.

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse

No point in complaining - I think its mainly Americans who are voting for Uncle Sam

**DaShi** · January 11, 2002, 03:05

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I think we should all be glad that the current Great Satan is pretty benign. Imagine if it was a European superpower

This is one of the best points made on this forum.

Kind of like asking the Chinese what they will do if they become the number 1 superpower (or Greece

).

**Lars-E** · January 11, 2002, 04:11

Dominikos I disagree with you.

The Soviet Union or the Communist world is the obvious choice IMO. That is if you don't get nitpicky about semantics..What is cruel etc.

If not killing a lot of ppl - far more than the nazis or anyone else - is cruel then what is? I wonder....Or do you prefer the term terrible?? Or what???

Here are the hard facts:
U.S.S.R.: 20 mill deaths
China: 65 mill
Vietnam: 1 mill
North Korea: 2 mill
Cambodia: 2 mill
Eastern Europe: 1 mill
Latin America: 150 tho
Africa: 1,7 mill
Afghanistan: 1,5 mill
The international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power: about 10 tho

The total approaches 100 million killed.

Read the classic "The Black Book of Communism" several authors (1997) which has been much debated in Europe, especially in France. You can get an English version thru Harvard University press.

The above mentioned book which is written by young historians living in France is partially based on newly opened - 1990s - Soviet archives.

It should be a must for Communists to read. Takes the halo off Lenin and other leaders. Lenin signed orders to kill lots of ppl. It'st there with his signature on it. Here's one example:

A telegram to the Central Executive Committee of the Penza soviet:

Comrades! The kulak uprising in your five districts must be crushed without pity. The interests of the whole revolution demand such actions, for the final struggle with the kulaks has now begun. You must make an example of these people. (1) Hang (I mean hang publicly, so that people see it) at least 100 kulaks, rich bastards, and known bloosuckers. (2) Publish their names. (3) Seize all their grain. (4) Single out the hostages per my instructions in yesterday's telegram. Do all this so that for miles around people see it all, understand it, tremble, and tell themselves that we are killing the bloodthirsty kulaks and that we will continue to do so. Reply saying you have received and carried out these instructions. Yours, Lenin.
P.S. Find tougher people
RTsKhIDNI, 2/1/6/898.

A kulak could be anyone who had just a tad more property, cows etc than the average. And I mean tad. An extra house and extra cow could do you in.

Other orders Lenin signed include taking away ration cards (bread) from a vast number of people. Including ordinary workers who were disgruntled. Famine was used as a political instrument for massmurder.

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