William Cooper Killed By Government Agents

[Ted Striker]

Funny, I thought everyone understood that if you were a citizen of the United States of America, you pay the Federal Government your income tax, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

The Federal government isn't "robbing" HIM.

HE is robbing the Federal government.

So, he can choose not to pay federal income tax, but that means he should give up his rights to drive on public roads, use public parks, call upon public safety services, etc. etc.

Or he can leave the US and go somewhere where federal taxes don't exist.


Face it Berzerker, you were trying to skew the event out of context in your favor. However, if your initial post was based on lack of information, I suggest doing your homework next time before posting news stories/blurbs obviously designed to hook in people with sensationalism.

[drake]

Paying taxes is part of living in America. This man obviously thought he was above the law. I obviously don't know the story (just berzerkers biased opinion), but he shouldnt have been refusing anyone anything. He should have stood aside while the repo men did their job.

Most likely, he pulled a weapon and threatened the feds. Should he have been killed? No. But did he probably bring it on himself? Yes, I would guess.

[DinoDoc]

Guys this had nothing to do with taxes as Berz said. In case anyone's interested, here's what happened (from Free Republic):

But, from the lips of one of Mr. Cooper's friends, as well as Alex Jones, Mr. Cooper had underwent some troubling changes over the past couple of years. Alex Jones theorized that Mr. Cooper had fought the evil forces of the NWO for too long, and became embittered and morose concerning the future of America. Of course Alex Jones, true to his rebellious and billigerent nature, discounted even the damning testimony brought forth by Mr. Cooper's friend, who also personally knows the Doctor that the frothing Cooper chased off of "his" mountain (actually it is a mesa that Cooper doesn't own, he owns only two lots on it, and has threatened at gun point anyone who attempts to enter the public lands). The Doctor is a local man who grew up in Eagar, and returned to establish a practice following medical school. Cooper was so enraged at the Doctor trespassing "on his mountain" that he walked down off from the mesa and put a gun in the doctor's face when he answered the door, saying "If you ever come up on my mountain again, I'll kill you."

Well, the Sheriff's office had no choice but to respond to the Doctor's filing of aggravated assault charges and device a plan to take Cooper alive. Cooper it seems, had made it known to all that he would never be taken alive. It seems that the Apache Sheriff's officers actually liked Cooper, and had kept the Feds at bay who had issued a warrant for his arrest over three years ago, saying that they wouldn't allow Cooper to be made into a Martyr as was his fatal wish.

Do you think DF will apoligize now for wish for the death of both officers?

[drake]

Do you think DF will apoligize now for wish for the death of both officers?

Not here. He likes his angry young man image

[Berzerker]

Krazyhorse -

The implication is not that I accused him of shooting random people; rather, the implication was that I was demonstrating that your defense of his actions (tax evasion) applied equally well to other actions (shooting random people) which he had not committed and which I assumed you would find indefensible.

That makes more sense, see how much easier it is to explain opaque anaolgies instead of repeating them? But now you are comparing apples and oranges, failure to pay taxes is not analogous to shooting people at random. And if you claim "the law is the law", then you should explain that absurdity to slaves and victims of the Nazis.

I have not agreed to not perform illegal acts in any contract I've signed till now, so why isn't that adequate defense for for illegal actions?

Depends on whose standards are being used. If you try to murder someone, they won't wait for a judge to hear your "defense". But if it's legal for me to rob you, and you defend yourself, wouldn't your defense be self-evidently moral? The fact something is legal or illegal is irrelevant to whether or not it is moral or immoral so I'm not sure why you seemingly place a higher value on what the law says.

Furthermore, using deadly force to defend my ability to break a certain law is only justifiable if in addition to believing that the law is wrong I believe it so wrong that the only solution is said deadly force. Otherwise I could decide that the speed limit on my street is 10km/hr too slow and shoot the first cop who tried to ticket me for it.

But you'd be wrong. Why? because it isn't your property. If it was, you could apply that higher speed limit. If the law seeks to protect the owner's right to regulate their road, then the law is just, if the law seeks to rob you to enrich me based on my political clout, then the law is unjust and you should have the same right to defend yourself as you would had I brandished a gun on a sidewalk to steal your money. Besides, had the cops shot first, a deadly response becomes justified.

Go start one if it's important enough to kill for.

It isn't, you're confusing me with someone you are better equipped to debate - a strawman.

Ted Striker -

Funny, I thought everyone understood that if you were a citizen of the United States of America, you pay the Federal Government your income tax, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

Oh, we understand that, and we also know we'll likely get killed if we don't. Not exactly a moral system, but you never claimed to believe in morality

The Federal government isn't "robbing" HIM.

Of course not, it's a "contribution". Yeah, that's the ticket...

HE is robbing the Federal government.

Yup, he went right up to Alan Greenspan and took money right out of the Fed.

So, he can choose not to pay federal income tax, but that means he should give up his rights to drive on public roads, use public parks, call upon public safety services, etc. etc.

He already pays taxes to use public roads - they're called gas taxes. And nothing in the Constitution even authorizes the Congress to build public roads within the states except in conjunction with federal buildings.

Or he can leave the US and go somewhere where federal taxes don't exist.

And the businessman confronted with Mafia thugs offering "protection" can do the same, doesn't speak well for your system when it is no different than organized crime.

Face it Berzerker, you were trying to skew the event out of context in your favor.

I prefer being accused of lying to my face, but I suppose it's safer from behind a computer screen.

However, if your initial post was based on lack of information, I suggest doing your homework next time before posting news stories/blurbs obviously designed to hook in people with sensationalism.

Why do you present two options after I already explained this? And stop pretending to be a mind reader, I posted this because I was saddened to learn Bill Cooper had been killed, not "hook" a bunch of left wingers who only see government as evil when they and their cohorts aren't being handed someone else's money.

[Berzerker]

Dinodoc - I posted my retraction near the end of page 2. I went to Free Republic before you and was satisfied that enough of my prior information was in error. And DF doesn't owe anyone an apology, he was mislead by my post.

[drake]

Even if he was misled, you don't think it was in-appropriate? Killing people because they were doing their job?

Fighting the government and its policies is fine. But not with guns. A government employee is just doing a job like anyone else.

Guy holed up in a mountain, threatening to kill people on "his" mountain. Sounds like he was a real lunatic.

What is the current "point" of the thread berz, I don't get it.

[SlowwHand]

Re: William Cooper Killed By Government Agents

Originally posted by Berzerker
The author of "Behold A Pale Horse" was killed Nov 5, 2001 in a "confrontation" with government agents outside his home in Arizona. The reason? He apparently owed back taxes and wasn't going to let them take his home I guess, so they killed him.

Well, I can follow his line of thought actually.

[Ted Striker]

No Berzerker, I'd still say it to your face.

And would you tell me I had no morals to my face?


Anyway, next time you're dying and in need of police or paramedics, just let them know you "don't bEEleave in no gubment taxation," so they can move on to somebody that actually PAID for their services.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Dinodoc - I posted my retraction near the end of page 2. I went to Free Republic before you and was satisfied that enough of my prior information was in error.

I was unclear. I meant to say that you had already said that the situation didn't have any thing to do with taxes. The only reason I posted what I did is because you didn't say what actually did happen in your retraction and was curious about the actual circumstances.

[Transcend]

Berzerker, you can also grab a piece of land somewhere on this continent and declare yourself independent. But don't cry if you get incarcerated while wandering in the United States, because you are just one more ILLEGAL ALIEN.

[David Floyd]

Well I'm not an "angry young man" by any means, to be quite honest.

And I apologize for wishing the death of local law enforcement officers who were acting properly. I was under the impression that was not the case.

As to wishing death on - well let's just say I'm not even close to the only one on this board to do that kinda of thing.

[Natan]

Berzerker: I wasn't reffering to you or to the deceased, but to David Floyd's comment that "It'll be a lot more than talk if federal agents try to do take away my property or violate my Constitutional rights. I'm not gonna just go on a shooting spree, **** man come on." My apologies; I should have made that clear.

[David Floyd]

Natan, how is it wrong for me to fight back if my rights are being violated? I don't understand.

[Berzerker]

Ted Striker -

No Berzerker, I'd still say it to your face.

We'll never know, this is still coming from someone sitting behind a computer screen.

And would you tell me I had no morals to my face?

No, I'm scared of you.

Anyway, next time you're dying and in need of police or paramedics, just let them know you "don't bEEleave in no gubment taxation," so they can move on to somebody that actually PAID for their services.

I do pay for their services, don't confuse my unwillingnes to pay taxes so leftists like yourself can hand my money out to people who didn't earn it with paying for services I do want. Maybe you can punch that strawman you've invented, he won't punch back.

Drake -

Fighting the government and its policies is fine. But not with guns. A government employee is just doing a job like anyone else.

That rationale didn't matter at Nuremburg so it won't work anytime a government employee is "just doing his job".

Guy holed up in a mountain, threatening to kill people on "his" mountain. Sounds like he was a real lunatic.

Just for the record, Dinodoc quoted a post that was challenged by others who knew Cooper and this doctor "friend". They weren't friends and the good doctor had trespassed a few times only to be escorted away by Cooper, hardly the actions of a "lunatic". I still don't know what happened between Cooper and the cops other than what's been posted and do have questions just as some of the people at Free Republic.

What is the current "point" of the thread berz, I don't get it.

The thread has become a place for some people to gloat from behind their strawmen and being called a liar by Mindreader Ted.

Dinodoc -

I was unclear. I meant to say that you had already said that the situation didn't have any thing to do with taxes. The only reason I posted what I did is because you didn't say what actually did happen in your retraction and was curious about the actual circumstances.

I don't know what actually happened other than the death of Mr Cooper and the wounding of the deputy. The quote you picked was quite damning of Cooper but I kept reading the thread for more information and discovered this doctor was not his friend and had trespassed repeatedly only to be escorted away by Cooper. The allegation that he threatened him with a gun is based solely on the doctor's word - a word I consider suspect given his prior conduct. Of course, the cops had to act on the charge nonetheless.

Transcend -

Berzerker, you can also grab a piece of land somewhere on this continent and declare yourself independent. But don't cry if you get incarcerated while wandering in the United States, because you are just one more ILLEGAL ALIEN.

Yes, I'll remember that sage advice the next time you post a complaint about government.

David -

Natan, how is it wrong for me to fight back if my rights are being violated? I don't understand.

It isn't, only the measure of force to be used is in question. It appears Cooper went over the line. Sorry for misleading you, your reaction was appropriate given the original information I provided inspite of what some of the leftists here claim.