The Altera Centauri collection has been brought up to date by Darsnan. It comprises every decent scenario he's been able to find anywhere on the web, going back over 20 years.
25 themes/skins/styles are now available to members. Check the select drop-down at the bottom-left of each page.
Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
"Did he shoot random people? No, he may have shot someone trying to rob and/or kill him. You've already admitted you cannot produce a contract with his agreement to pay us money so these people were there to rob him, not enforce a non-existent contract"
You missed my point. I was referring to the fact that it is unnecessary for him to agree to the laws of the US in order for them to apply to him. If I thought I was justified in shooting random people does it excuse me from homicide charges? If I thought taxes were wrong does it excuse me from paying taxes?
You have no links, no context, no evidence or details, and expect us to have a serious discussion about it?
Please.
I don't expect you to do anything. The details in the link I ended up providing did nothing to alter the information in my opening post. A man was shot and killed by government agents who wanted his property and you need "context, evidence and details"?
Originally posted by Berzerker
A man was shot and killed by government agents who wanted his property and you need "context, evidence and details"?
You're damn right I do.
And if you don't need that, why don't you go back to reading the Weekly World News?
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
Interesting. If you read the story, it looks to me like he broke a law (which you may not like, but which is still the law) and some government agents came to his house. He shot one of them twice, at which time the government agents defended themselves and killed him in the process. To try and cast the government as evil ogres out to kill him is incredibly irresponsible and, in my opinion, is one reason why it's difficult to take a lot of libertarians seriously, *especially* when they say things like everyone should have the right to self-defense. Or do they just mean everyone except the government, and everyone except someone defending themselves from a libertarian. Or when they discuss the importance of following, say, the first and second amendments. Apparently it's just the fifteenth amendment you can randomly disregard. If you people were consistant, gun control people should be national heroes in your book because they're ignoring a part of the constitution they don't like.
I say good. One less paranoid murderer to worry about. And if the libertarians want to make a guy who was killed during an attempted murder on a government deputy while trying to defy the law AND constitution a martyr, all the better...it'll show people how incredibly partisan and ridiculous they really are.
"Although I may disagree with what you say, I will defend to the death your right to hear me tell you how wrong you are."
Originally posted by Berzerker
His so-called "involvement" with the "Patriot movement" was limited to broadcasting and writing anti-government information,
If he's to earn a rep as a militia leader its going to have to be more than that Berz. Now I will freely admit that it is possible that the man didn't shoot first but I'd have to have more details before I call this murder or even self-defense.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
You missed my point. I was referring to the fact that it is unnecessary for him to agree to the laws of the US in order for them to apply to him.
You implied he was just walking around shooting people randomly, that was your point and I refuted that point. As for the laws applying to him without his approval, would slavery laws also apply to slaves without their approval? How about the laws enforced by the Nazis against their victims? You've got this mindset that government is God when it comes to morality. Just because something is law doesn't mean anything except to those who think law = morality. If you believe "government" - a group of people - have the moral authority to rob others, then obviously you believe they can murder the victims of their theft for resisting. I don't believe as you do...
If I thought I was justified in shooting random people does it excuse me from homicide charges?
I just refuted your argument and you use it again? Has he been convicted of shooting people at random/homocide? Slaves that ran away were not "excused" from the Fugitive Slave Act, that doesn't mean the law wasn't evil.
If I thought taxes were wrong does it excuse me from paying taxes?
If you never signed a contract agreeing to them, yes!
Floyd: Are you mad? You do know that federal employees are the same as you and me. They are people. They have families. When they reposses, they are just doing their job, and trying to support their families. "Why don't we just kill them all" is probably the most ignorant statement that someone can make (and I know you never said it, but you allude to it.) They're people, and they only have one life. Why take it away because you didn't pay your taxes? Really, if you don't like the laws, go somewhere else, or try to change them. Don't try to kill other people.
"I predict your ignore will rival Ben's" - Ecofarm
^ The Poly equivalent of:
"I hope you can see this 'cause I'm [flipping you off] as hard as I can" - Ignignokt the Mooninite
The reason why I requested a link is that often we take news items out of context and skew it towards our own viewpoints.
You said that the government officers murdered him because he owed the government money. Some things you LEFT OUT:
1. A national leader of the militia movement has been killed and an Apache County sheriff's deputy wounded in a shootout, authorities said.
2. Cooper refused to get a driver's license or pay federal income taxes
3. The deputy, whose name was being withheld by authorities, was shot twice in the head while trying to arrest Cooper, a state Department of Public Safety spokesman said today. Cooper was killed by another officer.
4. Several deputies were attempting to arrest Cooper, who was armed with a handgun,
5. Cooper was one of the most widely known prophets of the "patriot movement," railing at the federal government and talking of doomsday omens in his radio broadcast.
6. [Timothy] McVeigh, who was executed in May for the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City, listened to Cooper's broadcasts for inspiration, according to testimony by James Nichols
Sounds like a real great guy, Berzerker.
So, do you weep for the "murder" of the deputy who was trying to arrest him, and FORCED others to kill him?
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln
You are a very confused debater, Berzerker. I in no way implied that he walked around shooting random people. What I said was that the police are justified in enforcing the laws of the country in which you live, whether or not the people they enforce them on agree to these laws.
If you think that it is morally wrong for you to have to pay taxes and that the extent of this infringement is sufficient to justify resisting taxation with deadly force, then we've come to the core of the matter. I simply disagree with you. Your moral code is self-consistent, but is in direct conflict with my own. All I can say is "too bad". You inhabit a country in which virtually everyone disagrees with you in such a manner that it is impossible for you to live under the same laws that they do. Either move, fight, or live with it.
And if you don't need that, why don't you go back to reading the Weekly World News?
The article I initially read gave me the context, and nothing in the second article changed that context. Show me where the context changed between the two articles or just go away, I'm tired of you demanding "context" while ignoring my requests for you to show how my opening post lacked context.
Giant Squid -
Interesting. If you read the story, it looks to me like he broke a law (which you may not like, but which is still the law)
So you would have been standing by telling Jews to walk into the gas chambers for violating laws they might not have liked?
He shot one of them twice, at which time the government agents defended themselves and killed him in the process.
Where in the article did you read this?
To try and cast the government as evil ogres out to kill him is incredibly irresponsible and, in my opinion, is one reason why it's difficult to take a lot of libertarians seriously, *especially* when they say things like everyone should have the right to self-defense.
Since you've read into the article "facts" not in the article, maybe it's a bit irresponsible to make generalizations about libertarians.
Or do they just mean everyone except the government, and everyone except someone defending themselves from a libertarian.
Where did any libertarian argue only libertarians have the right to self-defense?
How was "government" exercising it's "right" to self-defense by trying to rob someone?
Or when they discuss the importance of following, say, the first and second amendments. Apparently it's just the fifteenth amendment you can randomly disregard.
No, people can vote, I have no problem with that.
If you people were consistant, gun control people should be national heroes in your book because they're ignoring a part of the constitution they don't like.
Where are we or Mr Cooper (and he isn't a libertarian btw) ignoring the Constitution? Anyway, I am no longer a supporter of the Constitution, I didn't sign it, therefore it doesn't oblige me to act in it's defense. And at least I'm willing to admit this, liberals and conservatives who claim to support the Constitution are just lying (or painfully - willfully IMO - ignorant).
I say good. One less paranoid murderer to worry about.
He wasn't a murderer until a group of people tried to rob him of his home. In fact, he still isn't a murderer (from your POV), the deputy was not killed and we don't even know who shot him yet.
And if the libertarians want to make a guy who was killed during an attempted murder on a government deputy while trying to defy the law AND constitution a martyr, all the better...it'll show people how incredibly partisan and ridiculous they really are.
Hmm...I provide a link to an article about the incident because people are complaining about a lack of facts, and after providing the article, you make up your own facts. Much of your post is inaccurate, but that's to be expected I guess from someone who is so non-partisan and reasonable...
Dinodoc -
If he's to earn a rep as a militia leader its going to have to be more than that Berz. Now I will freely admit that it is possible that the man didn't shoot first but I'd have to have more details before I call this murder or even self-defense.
He's not a militia leader, you're taking the Ariz Republic's characterizations as fact. Many militia-types and others read his books and publications and listen to his radio broadcasts. I have listened to him in the past myself so I do know the man a little. I'd also have to know more though, if he was confronted at his home after robbing a bank for example, he is a murderer if the deputy dies. But from what I know so far, he was defending his home from people who wanted it for "back-taxes" and that is robbery.
Pssst! Hey Berzerker, those excerpts I posted are from the article you posted!!!
WORD FOR WORD!!!
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln
Originally posted by Berzerker
The article I initially read gave me the context, and nothing in the second article changed that context. Show me where the context changed between the two articles or just go away, I'm tired of you demanding "context" while ignoring my requests for you to show how my opening post lacked context.
I didn't say the context changed, I said it was lacking context.
Example:
- Who shot first?
- You did not mention it was a shootout (entirely different than just a 'killing')
- You did not mention he was armed
etc.
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
The United States must be the only Western country where people actually get into fatal confrontations with their government over tax arrears. That is so weird.
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..
Originally posted by David Floyd
Did he at least kill a couple of feds in the process? I'm guessing not, unfortunately.
DF - if you have an issue with "feds" that is your business. Advocating killing of law enforcement officers, or most anyone else (I think we make a general exception for OBL) is not acceptable on this site.
Do it again, and you'll get a week off.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
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