Call for an EU-wide pupil- and studentstrike

[Zopperoni]

True, posting bullsh*t and then running away as always.

Originally posted by Infatuation
It's only fair that students pay their own way in education, either through loans from the bank, or parental contributions.

After all, it's the student who benefits from the education. Why should anyone else pay for it.

Education is a good just like your car or your house. You don't expect the taxpayer to pay for your car or your house, so why should you have your education paid for.

Neither of my parents could go to university.
Why?
Because there was no money. (Only my mom's youngest brother could go to university.)

Now who benefits from such a situation in the end?
Right, absolutely nobody, while with scholarships both government and students benefit.

I am glad I can go to university. I get some money from the government, but it's not that much, but I can pay the greater part of my study from the money I earn working every Saturday.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Infatuation
It's only fair that students pay their own way in education, either through loans from the bank, or parental contributions.

Alright for a kid like you who's parents have considerable means, but not all have that capability. How the hell do you think I would have got to Oxford without government assistance and grants? Come down from your ivory tower and join the real world. Education should not be a province of the rich. If the talent is there, they should go to university, no exception depending on how rich their 'mummy and daddy is'.

After all, it's the student who benefits from the education. Why should anyone else pay for it.

Bull. I thought you were an economist. It is a means of increasing the attractiveness of your society to business by having a more skilled workforce. Think of all the investment it brings. It is a valuable investment in human capital. Don't oversimplify Stew, you should know better, and you and I have been here before, haven't we?

Education is a good just like your car or your house. You don't expect the taxpayer to pay for your car or your house, so why should you have your education paid for.

Nope, education is far more than that. A car or a house are just material possessions. A good education, a sturdy grounding and a keen intellect are far more valuable than any of those. Get real Stew, it is easy for you to say. It isn't just a matter of 'earning potential' but a matter of self esteem.

[DanS]

A good friend of mine is in debt $200,000 for his education. Probably the best money he's ever spent.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DanS
A good friend of mine is in debt $200,000 for his education. Probably the best money he's ever spent.

That's a stupid amount of money to have to spend for an education.

[DanS]

"That's a stupid amount of money to have to spend for an education."

Why? It's a pearl of great price. The most valuable asset he has in life.

[Zopperoni]

Originally posted by DanS
"That's a stupid amount of money to have to spend for an education."

Why? It's a pearl of great price. The most valuable asset he has in life.

But wouldn't it take forever for him to pay back his debt?

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Zopperoni
Neither of my parents could go to university.
Why?
Because there was no money. (Only my mom's youngest brother could go to university.)

Now who benefits from such a situation in the end?
Right, absolutely nobody, while with scholarships both government and students benefit.

You're wrong. Right-wingers do very well benefit from that. Rich people, middle class etc tend to be right wingers, and watching hoe poor people can't go to Uni confirms their thinking of being better... Only when seeing how only rich people like them can go to Uni makes them feel so special, confirms their way of thinking that only the amount of money you have makes you a good or bad person...

Of course it is all nonsense, and I'm surprised how a person like Spink can be against free access of education. :Q:

[DanS]

"But wouldn't it take forever for him to pay back his debt?"

Sure. But once he pays off the debt, he'll still have an excellent education that he wanted and worked very hard toward.

And he'll know exactly what kind of resources went into providing for his education.

[axi]

Oh well...

I kept a watch on this thread until Paul Hanson, Infatuation and DanS posted... and I felt like I fell from a different planet. 3 different people, 3 different views AGAINST what I am announcing here. It is interesting to have a brief look at them:

1. Paul Hanson: The subdued.
Kinda agrees, but, as he lives in an environment of intensive studies and high competition, cannot participate in any collective action that could harm his personal progress. In a world of worklessness, professional insecurity and fierce competition, he prefers to be a lonely traveller. If only we could do this strike on Febuary...

2. Infatuation: The indoctrinated.
Ideologically against the strike, he is at least more honest than the first specimen. Thatcherite, Reaganite, neo-liberal, conservative, fascist, or just a plain old troll, this type of guy just blatantly says to all European students, **** you, you're wrong, you are worth nothing, you should be crushed for the sake of marginal profits and the economic equilibrium. Well my friend, most people seem to think that education and knowledge, as a good, shares more common traits with the air we breathe, the water we drink, the love we get from our kin, rather than with the car we buy from our dealer. This means it should be free of charge, always in surplus, the more you get the better it is for all, when shared it augments, etc, etc...

3. DanS: The cynic.
Has seen some students on strike wasting their time. Believes that all that non-working students can do is waste their time. Well, since these people are wasting their time in the exact same way when they are on vacation, perhaps there should be no vacations at all. He cannot grasp the fact that if people want so desperately to have a vacation that they engage in this organised form of skipping school, then something's wrong with their daily routine, which is too intensified and leaves them no free time. This only is a valid cause for a strike and overworked people all over should do the same, since free time is the scarcest commodity of all, nowdays. And don't forget that a strike is supposed to be not only counter-productive, but so devastating to production (production of knowlegde in this case) that it can press the superiors to change their policies so that their "machine" starts working again. So the only fault with those kids mentioned is that they were not trying to convince more people to do the same as they did.

I have nothing personal with the guys, but it stroke me as 3 really characteristic attitudes, so I had to comment on them.

[DanS]

Cynic? Hardly.

Rather, since the community is paying for your education, the education system is answerable ultimately to the community as a whole, not you the students. Further, the students are answerable to the community, not the other way around. I think this strike should be broken and replacement students should be trucked in from Afghanistan.

If you're paying for your own education, you have every right to be vocal about the quality of education you believe you either are or are not getting. In that case, you can fire the administration for all I care.

[Solly]

BOOHOO! I can't afford a personal jet...the government should buy me one!!



End is Forever,

As an economics student, perhaps you'd like to explain the concept of a merit good... and why such goods are underconsumed, and how you would ensure that, using education as an example, this market failure is redressed.

Good point. However, above a certain level (certainly before degree level) education ceases to become a merit good - think about it...if you entered the labour force as the only person with a degree standard education, your labour would be worth far more than now. As it is, tens of thousands get a degree and them getting a degree brings down your earnings by increasing the supply of people with a degree.

Rich,

Education should not be a province of the rich

Why not? It's a good/service just like a house or car is. Expensive cars are the province of the rich but I don't hear you railing against that and saying everyone should have a Jaguar.

the talent is there, they should go to university

Some might argue that it's only if the talent isn't there that the person should spend longer in education. Something to think about.

DanS,

A good friend of mine is in debt $200,000 for his education. Probably the best money he's ever spent.

This shows even if you don't have huge financial backing, you can still go to university.

What a bunch of whiners in this thread, demanding their government give them everything.

[Paul Hanson]

Re: Oh well...

Originally posted by axi
I1. Paul Hanson: The subdued.
Kinda agrees, but, as he lives in an environment of intensive studies and high competition, cannot participate in any collective action that could harm his personal progress. In a world of worklessness, professional insecurity and fierce competition, he prefers to be a lonely traveller. If only we could do this strike on Febuary...

I would hardly go that far, but I do believe that the students who participate in this strike will only harm their own chances in the long term; even if they are successful, they probably won`t be the ones who would benefit. If they are doing it for future generations, then to them; that would be very noble of them. But I have this feeling that they aren't.

[Solly]

Paul Hanson's fact is right - these students protesting are greedy.

[Paul Hanson]

Just out of curiousity, are there any sort of figures avaliable as to how many people are taking part in this strike?

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Infatuation
Good point. However, above a certain level (certainly before degree level) education ceases to become a merit good - think about it...if you entered the labour force as the only person with a degree standard education, your labour would be worth far more than now. As it is, tens of thousands get a degree and them getting a degree brings down your earnings by increasing the supply of people with a degree.

What about international competition?

Why not? It's a good/service just like a house or car is. Expensive cars are the province of the rich but I don't hear you railing against that and saying everyone should have a Jaguar.

God, you're actually making me sick - WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE'S LIVES AND THIER OPPORTUNITIES. Why the hell should you get them rather than someone else just because you have rich parents?

This shows even if you don't have huge financial backing, you can still go to university.

And end up in huge debt, which poorer people can't afford to pay off

What a bunch of whiners in this thread, demanding their government give them everything.

Rather than mater and pater? Snob.