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"But lets face it, compared to the military spending of your country, free education would be cheap."
A lot of things would be cheap in comparison. Hey, anybody think they can spend $400 billion in a year?
"transcendent of commercial transaction"
I wonder how you think your education is funded.
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
In a private education system, everyone would have the same educational opportunities. This fact has already been explained to you in this thread.
Just let me put my kidneys back in and suture my sides up. You don't honestly expect me to believe that do you? It will be a bidding system, where only those with the best finances will be able to go, and the better establishments will get the richer students, not the more talented. That is exactly the scenario European educational establishments have been moving away from, but alas, taking a few steps backwards more recently.
I understand what you are trying to say, but I dismiss it as ill-thought out and having no grounding in reality.
Speaking of Erith:
"It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith
Originally posted by DanS "But lets face it, compared to the military spending of your country, free education would be cheap."
A lot of things would be cheap in comparison. Hey, anybody think they can spend $400 billion in a year?
Just think of what could be done with it though.
"transcendent of commercial transaction"
I wonder how you think your education is funded.
Grants and government paid, thankyou very much. And I am not from a wealthy background, in fact a very working class background. I hope the same opportunities will be afforded to future generations, and that education will not become a province of the rich.
Speaking of Erith:
"It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith
Oh, the magic bullet eh? Hand it over to public enterprise. From what I have seen of the attempts made in my own country, this is nothing but a 'holy grail' of the left, and a totally unattainable one. I wouldn't like to evaluate what kind of a mess this mentality has made. But mark my words, practice has not borne out the theory to be a good one. Rather, it is a stinking catastrophe, the poor find another milchcow, and conditions do not improve one iota. Again, we need to tackle the issue at it's roots, not just make it someone else's responsibility. All this socialization thing is simply a matter of 'passing the buck'
Doh! I just used a whole lot of words to say a whole lot of nothing!
You've got to admit, it requires a lot more thought on behalf of a poor person to take the risk over someone who has a rich mummy and daddy to pay for it. Every person should have the same educational opportunities, regardless of parental background.
Right and what you get is the vast desolate gulf of mediocre public education (don't worry I won't be at the strike, so I'm going to use up my quota now). I've already had my share and I'm not going back for seconds. Higher risk equals higher reward my friend, remember that if you're ever going to invest your money. Hey, if there's enough people still interested in the medicrity of public education I see no reason not to keep it around, but lets not pigeon hole every poor person into not letting giving them a choice as to whether or not their going take that risk. For their sake alone you should be supporting this notion.
"I hope the same opportunities will be afforded to future generations, and that education will not become a province of the rich."
That fear is irrational. Fact is, each and every year a higher %-age of people are going to university (at least in the US). And education in the US is rarely free in total.
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
Before the state got involved in education in England and Wales in 1870, the great majority - around 95 per cent - of young people were in schooling, for an average of almost 6 years. Literacy and numeracy were almost universal, and the greatest proportion of school fees were provided for by parents. A similar phenomena occurred in America before government involvement in education there and in Scotland.
Extrapolating from these findings, we could reasonably argue that, had the state not intervened, and had the wealth of people continued to increase, then state intervention in these states to ensure an adequate supply of educational opportunities would not be needed.
Originally posted by DanS "I hope the same opportunities will be afforded to future generations, and that education will not become a province of the rich."
That fear is irrational. Fact is, each and every year a higher %-age of people are going to university (at least in the US).
Same in this country. But there shouldn't be a reversal of trend. Education, IMO, should be a right of all, and no cost should be involved.
And WhiteElephants, what a crap statement. Do you know anything about the post-war period after WW2. Some would consider the establishment of the welfare state, NHS, etc, in this country to be it's greatest move, far above that of the empire, and has contributed so much to the standard of living in this country.
Speaking of Erith:
"It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith
Just let me put my kidneys back in and suture my sides up. You don't honestly expect me to believe that do you? It will be a bidding system, where only those with the best finances will be able to go, and the better establishments will get the richer students, not the more talented.
What you more accurately describe is the current system of education we have already -- military academies, catholic schools, etc., etc. The problem being that the poor aren't allowed to be one of the bidders as the money they are taxed is already bid for them and bid toward the poor public education they are being given. Giving them that money, which is in effect being stolen from them, would give them a foundation for them to start the bidding. Coming up with the rest would be up to them and, frankly, based on how important their, or their childs, education is to them. As it is now the wonderful world of bueracracy is the one making the decision for the poor people, and in effect saying you're too stupid to make any decision for yourself, so we, the government, is going to make one for you. I, on the other hand, am willing to give the poor a benifit of the doubt and belive that they will make a choice that is most benefical for themselves and not attempt to control their fate, but put their fate into their own hands.
What you more accurately describe is the current system of education we have already -- military academies, catholic schools, etc., etc. The problem being that the poor aren't allowed to be one of the bidders as the money they are taxed is already bid for them and bid toward the poor public education they are being given. Giving them that money, which is in effect being stolen from them, would give them a foundation for them to start the bidding. Coming up with the rest would be up to them and, frankly, based on how important their, or their childs, education is to them. As it is now the wonderful world of bueracracy is the one making the decision for the poor people, and in effect saying you're too stupid to make any decision for yourself, so we, the government, is going to make one for you. I, on the other hand, am willing to give the poor a benifit of the doubt and belive that they will make a choice that is most benefical for themselves and not attempt to control their fate, but put their fate into their own hands.
Let the bidding begin!!!
Oh come on off it, you don't still honestly believe in this 'tax is theft' nonsense, which is quite honestly just a cynical ploy of certain political organisations. Come on, if you start relying on capitalist methods, all that happens in reality, is that someone will sponge a hefty profit, costs will increase but in reality, service will not be any better. This is all I have seen from privatisation. I do not share your same deluded faith in capitalism, quite the opposite in fact.
Speaking of Erith:
"It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith
Provost: I have yet to hear a compelling argument why a non-student paid university education is a necessary component of an educated society (rather, I've heard a lot of "this is what I think so it must be so"). In fact, I've yet to hear a compelling argument how a non-student paid university education even affects it positively.
You are getting taken to the woodshed by Stew, for God's sake. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Is this what EU education has come to?
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
Come on, if you start relying on capitalist methods, all that happens in reality, is that someone will sponge a hefty profit, costs will increase but in reality, service will not be any better. This is all I have seen from privatisation. I do not share your same deluded faith in capitalism, quite the opposite in fact.
I, as a consumer, will demand better service or there won't be any profit, eh? As the education system in this country is now, I don't have any right to demand because they, the public school system, gets my money regardless, and that, my friend, is no delusion.
Oh come on off it, you don't still honestly believe in this 'tax is theft' nonsense, which is quite honestly just a cynical ploy of certain political organisations. Come on, if you start relying on capitalist methods, all that happens in reality, is that someone will sponge a hefty profit, costs will increase but in reality, service will not be any better. This is all I have seen from privatisation. I do not share your same deluded faith in capitalism, quite the opposite in fact.
Why stop at University? Why not just ditch the Secondary and Primary schools, too? I mean, you learn the basics in Preschool. I'm sure you can build on from there.
In a sense, you (Provost) would then support a company who made a product and charged whatever they wanted, regardless of service or quality, that you had to buy.
Why don't we just charge people to breath and get it over with?
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