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--"So I'm not sure if the US' ban/war on drugs can clarify the 7 times higher homicide rates."
Well, the US isn't Europe. I don't know how those laws are being enforced in, say, the UK, but there's plenty of precedent for the effects this kind of "war" has on US society. Remember Capone? Our last attempt to do something that stupid set up a whole new class of criminal.
--"True, but I think it is probably easier psychologically to press a trigger and kill someone who satnds ten yards from you, than grabbing a baseball bat and braining someone."
A lot of people think that, but there's only partial evidence for it. Psych studies on the so-called trigger effect (basically what you're talking about here) are split half-and-half on it. The more realistic the scenarios being tested, the less likely a weapon (any weapon, not just necessarily a gun) will be to have that effect.
Remember as well that most criminals are not setting out to kill someone. They want money or drugs or whatever, and that's one thing, but actually killing someone bumps them into a whole new category that makes them much more likely to suffer from police attention.
Interesting side-effect of this is that, last I heard, most home break-ins occur during the day now. Robbers say it's much more difficult to tell if there's someone at home at night, so they try to avoid breaking in then. Their biggest fear is not the police, either, but armed home-owners.
--"however I theorize that a criminal is far more likely to use the firearm anyway, rather than the person he's committing a criminal act against."
Not really. As I've mentioned already, guns are going to bump the crime up into a whole new category as far as police pressure goes. You threaten someone with a knife, you only have to worry about some assault charges if things go bad. Threaten someone with a gun.. well, most muggers don't want to kill their victims, they just want the money. The kind of people who are setting out to kill someone are going to try to get the gun in any case, legal or not.
Criminals are also notoriously bad shots. If didn't usually take the easy way out most of them wouldn't be crooks, after all
These aren't the kind of guys who go spend time at the firing range.
I don't have a citation handy here, but there's been a study done that showed that armed resistance to robbery attempts or assaults is actually the safest thing you could do.
--"than you fail to understand that it's a country where there is little armed forces, and the people serve as a militia"
I know, but the argument orginally presented was just as simplistic. There just aren't any countries out there that would function well as a control.
--"it can also be 'shown' BY the aggressor into making the victim do what he or she wants them to do."
I am aware of this, but it isn't the entire story, as I talked about a little above. Another Gary Kleck study, Guns and Violence: A Summary of the Field covers this one in more detail (Available online, it's a summary of one of his books).
--"and I truly don't think you have any cause for concern about the government becoming corrupt and imprisoning you"
I do. There's over 2 million people in jail in the US. Last year over 600,000 people were arrested for technical crimes (by which I mean they harm no one except possibly themselves, like pot smokers). The government is currently holding over a thousand people without trial (or with secret trial), refusing to even comment on the charges they're being held under. The Supreme Court has ruled that police have the power to arrest you for crimes that do not carry a jail sentence. There are assett forfeiture laws on the books all over the US (in conjunction with the War on Drugs) that are not very good at distinguishing law-breakers from law-abiders. Warrants are becoming increasingly easy to get, even no-knock warrants, and the government doesn't have a stellar track record in finding the right doors. Not to mention several recent laws that have been passed and as-yet have not been scrutinized by the Supreme Court (DCMA, SSSCA, PATRIOT, etc). If you look carefully at some of those, you'll find out that it's entirely possible to be arrested for saying the wrong thing and being noticed.
--"So if you're going to go to jail, or if the government is going to come after you, it's going to be for a good reason."
Hehe.
Oh, wait, are you being serious?
Wraith
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- H. L. Mencken
Well, the US isn't Europe. I don't know how those laws are being enforced in, say, the UK, but there's plenty of precedent for the effects this kind of "war" has on US society. Remember Capone? Our last attempt to do something that stupid set up a whole new class of criminal.
--"True, but I think it is probably easier psychologically to press a trigger and kill someone who satnds ten yards from you, than grabbing a baseball bat and braining someone."
A lot of people think that, but there's only partial evidence for it. Psych studies on the so-called trigger effect (basically what you're talking about here) are split half-and-half on it. The more realistic the scenarios being tested, the less likely a weapon (any weapon, not just necessarily a gun) will be to have that effect.
Remember as well that most criminals are not setting out to kill someone. They want money or drugs or whatever, and that's one thing, but actually killing someone bumps them into a whole new category that makes them much more likely to suffer from police attention.
Interesting side-effect of this is that, last I heard, most home break-ins occur during the day now. Robbers say it's much more difficult to tell if there's someone at home at night, so they try to avoid breaking in then. Their biggest fear is not the police, either, but armed home-owners.
--"however I theorize that a criminal is far more likely to use the firearm anyway, rather than the person he's committing a criminal act against."
Not really. As I've mentioned already, guns are going to bump the crime up into a whole new category as far as police pressure goes. You threaten someone with a knife, you only have to worry about some assault charges if things go bad. Threaten someone with a gun.. well, most muggers don't want to kill their victims, they just want the money. The kind of people who are setting out to kill someone are going to try to get the gun in any case, legal or not.
Criminals are also notoriously bad shots. If didn't usually take the easy way out most of them wouldn't be crooks, after all
These aren't the kind of guys who go spend time at the firing range.I don't have a citation handy here, but there's been a study done that showed that armed resistance to robbery attempts or assaults is actually the safest thing you could do.
--"than you fail to understand that it's a country where there is little armed forces, and the people serve as a militia"
I know, but the argument orginally presented was just as simplistic. There just aren't any countries out there that would function well as a control.
--"it can also be 'shown' BY the aggressor into making the victim do what he or she wants them to do."
I am aware of this, but it isn't the entire story, as I talked about a little above. Another Gary Kleck study, Guns and Violence: A Summary of the Field covers this one in more detail (Available online, it's a summary of one of his books).
--"and I truly don't think you have any cause for concern about the government becoming corrupt and imprisoning you"
I do. There's over 2 million people in jail in the US. Last year over 600,000 people were arrested for technical crimes (by which I mean they harm no one except possibly themselves, like pot smokers). The government is currently holding over a thousand people without trial (or with secret trial), refusing to even comment on the charges they're being held under. The Supreme Court has ruled that police have the power to arrest you for crimes that do not carry a jail sentence. There are assett forfeiture laws on the books all over the US (in conjunction with the War on Drugs) that are not very good at distinguishing law-breakers from law-abiders. Warrants are becoming increasingly easy to get, even no-knock warrants, and the government doesn't have a stellar track record in finding the right doors. Not to mention several recent laws that have been passed and as-yet have not been scrutinized by the Supreme Court (DCMA, SSSCA, PATRIOT, etc). If you look carefully at some of those, you'll find out that it's entirely possible to be arrested for saying the wrong thing and being noticed.
--"So if you're going to go to jail, or if the government is going to come after you, it's going to be for a good reason."
Hehe.
Oh, wait, are you being serious?
Wraith
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- H. L. Mencken
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