The X-Box is here -- Are you ready? ;)

[Wiglaf]

Wiglaf, I don't care how you feel about this, but keep in mind your getting overly zealous in your denouncement of the X-Box. Like it or hate it, it is not something that will go away on your whim.

read above

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wraith
It's not weird, it's very efficent.

It IS weird. YOU list me another graphics card that uses the same technology. Oops, you can't. It's weird.
I never said it was bad, I know it's a good thing.

the X-Box, with it's 64 Megs (unless they're doing a 4x32bit with 16 megs on each, which doesn't seem likely given the photos showing number of RAM chips), will not operate as efficently. It also has to deal with sending all the other traffic over that same bus (DVD to HD, etc), so it simply will not have the same graphics bandwidth as the Ti200.

They are doing 4x32bit. Read the Anandtech article.

So you were able to find two favorable Althon quotes. Congratulations. The AXP does win some benchmarks so readily that even Tom can't ignore it without looking a fool. And that still doesn't touched the biased benchmark suite.

Er...Wraith, it's WIDELY accepted that Toms is AMD biased. EVERYONE knows that. You can't even begin to argue otherwise. He makes large, sweeping statements (Xbox is a wimpy PC, etc) with no foundations in reality, just pure rhetoric and exaggerations. But that's how he gets his precious pageviews.

This is exactly the kind of argument that I despise to get, and exactly the kind of argument you make all the damn time. You know good and well that the drive itself is 10 gigs, whether or not the X-Box OS is willing to recognize it. This is an arbitrary limitation of the software, and has nothing to do with the hardware.

Look, you were either wrong (in which case you should just accept it and move on) or you're trying to cover your ass because you were trying to embarras UR regardless of the facts and were hoping no-one would know better (in which case you've been called on it and should stop doing it).

You should know that I used to respect you in debates.

It doesn't matter if the drive is 10 gigs or not, because it's REALLY 8 gigs. The other 2 gigs do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It's like saying your computer has 768MB of RAM when running Windows 95. Windows 95 doesn't do anything above 512MB, so it may as well not be there.

You're trying to make yourself look absolutely correct, when you're not. It's an 8 gig hard drive. It may have a capacity for 10, but it's 8. Done deal. No more on the matter.

Wiglaf, if you're going to argue with Glonsher, you'll have to get used to it. This is his SOP. Every time he realizes he's loosing an argument he starts context-dropping and twisting everyone's comments. It's incredibly frustrating, and if he acts like this in person I'm surprised he hasn't had all his teeth knocked out yet.

You think I'M losing?
I'm context switching and dropping everyone's comments?!
Christ you guys piss me off some times.
I try my best to respond to every single ****ing comment (look how many replies I've made). It is YOU that selectively chooses comments to reply to, then when I reply to them you go on a rant about how I'm context switching.
Shame on you.

I honestly used to respect you, you seemed to have known what you're talking about.

And now I can see you're just as bad as UR, making blind comments and just arguing with me because you don't like me or what I like. Fine, whatever.
Why don't you just go call me a commie too and be done with it? At least then there'd be some comedic value to your spam.

[Wiglaf]

You think I'M losing?
I'm context switching and dropping everyone's comments?!
Christ you guys piss me off some times.
I try my best to respond to every single ****ing comment (look how many replies I've made). It is YOU that selectively chooses comments to reply to, then when I reply to them you go on a rant about how I'm context switching.
Shame on you.

if you want to be that picky: bottom of the last page, for one.

And now I can see you're just as bad as UR, making blind comments and just arguing with me because you don't like me or what I like. Fine, whatever.
Why don't you just go call me a commie too and be done with it? At least then there'd be some comedic value to your spam.

I guess that counts.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
as for the xbox/PC power issue.

I just played some RTCW today. It completely blows console graphics I've seen out of the water, especially some of the launch titles for xbox and gamecube. Seeing that thing at 1024x768 really took my breath away. Get the right monitor, and the PC is the only act in town. No competition, especially since the depth is so much greater to begin with.

Some comparison shots:

Halo/Xbox:

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2001/vgnews/101201/xbox/halo/halo_tgs_screen013.jpg

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2001/vgnews/101201/xbox/halo/halo_tgs_screen001.jpg

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2001/xbox/halo/110201/halo_screen018.jpg

Return to Castle Wolfenstein/PC

http://pcmedia.ign.com/media/previews/image/rctw10-11003.jpg

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2001/pc/act/wolfenstein/wolfenstein_screen035.jpg

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2001/pcnews/100401/sof2/sof2_screen004.jpg

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/e3_2001/pc/sof2/sof2_screen005.jpg

PC graphics (even geforce2 pros, $90) have already overtaken what the clunky MS console has to offer. A ti200 or 500? No questions asked. In two years, when the ti500 is budget, the screens will be pretty painful just to look at.

Halo doesn't use all of the Xbox's power. In fact, I've heard it only uses one of the vertex pipelines on the Xbox. Presumably because it's also coming out for the PC in a short amount of time.

I have RTCW, the graphics are pretty good. But damn man, it's nothing new. It's a modified Quake III engine.

If you think those graphics overtake what the "clunky MS console" has to offer, you just are so completely and utterly stupid I wouldn't know where to begin.

The graphical horsepower isn't being used on the Xbox to its full potential yet (we've already discussed this in the thread). Especially in Halo, it's only using half of the power available to it.

Honestly, Wiglaf, you have no clue what you're saying. The Xbox GPU completely and utterly stomps that of your $90 GeForce 2. You are proving nothing but your own ignorance.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
if you want to be that picky: bottom of the last page, for one.

Hey genius, that depends on how many posts I have set to be displayed per page. I've got 40, what's your setting?

I guess that counts.

Counts for what?
Do you even know what you're saying, or do you just say things that can be treated as a troll?

[Wiglaf]

If you think those graphics overtake what the "clunky MS console" has to offer, you just are so completely and utterly stupid I wouldn't know where to begin.

troll.

Hey genius, that depends on how many posts I have set to be displayed per page. I've got 40, what's your setting?

troll.

You are proving nothing but your own ignorance.

troll. in fact, you've trolled dozens of times in this thread. far more than I have. so, before we go on, just understand that simple fact.

Halo doesn't use all of the Xbox's power. In fact, I've heard it only uses one of the vertex pipelines on the Xbox. Presumably because it's also coming out for the PC in a short amount of time.

I haven't seen much of an increase of graphical show on any recent console from 1st gen to 2nd gen: N64, Dreamcast, and PS2. I highly doubt Halo XBox is graphically mediocre because of its release date: granted, the power of the console will be tweaked, but it won't be anything overly massive. Also, I'd like a link for your tech babble.

I have RTCW, the graphics are pretty good. But damn man, it's nothing new. It's a modified Quake III engine.

And that still beats out Halo in side-by-sides.

Honestly, Wiglaf, you have no clue what you're saying. The Xbox GPU completely and utterly stomps that of your $90 GeForce 2. You are proving nothing but your own ignorance.

I don't have a Geforce 2, I don't even have a post-2000 PC in my house. Still, as Wolfenstein runs perfect on a 1.2 GHz P4 with a Pro (according to www.ignpc.com, friends, and gamespot), my point still stands.

Actually, your three lines of assness right there are unequaled in this thread when it comes to trolling. Don't go there, glonky.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
troll. in fact, you've trolled dozens of times in this thread. far more than I have. so, before we go on, just understand that simple fact.

It's in reply to your trolls, Wiglaf.
And all of my statements about you are completely correct.

I haven't seen much of an increase of graphical show on any recent console from 1st gen to 2nd gen: N64, Dreamcast, and PS2.

Blah, what the hell is this?
I have NO idea what you're trying to say. Technical development isn't going up as fast as it used to? Are you calling N64 first gen? Errr..?

N64 and PS2 are NOT in the same generation, if that's what you're trying to say, btw.

I highly doubt Halo XBox is graphically mediocre because of its release date: granted, the power of the console will be tweaked, but it won't be anything overly massive. Also, I'd like a link for your tech babble.

It's graphically mediocre because it's intended to be ported to the PC. In fact, it was originally intended for the PC/Mac. In order to take advantage of the second vertex pipeline you have to change some fundamental parts of the renderer. It's kinda like having dual processors: Having a second CPU in your box doesn't boost performance in every application. They need to be designed to support it.

And that still beats out Halo in side-by-sides.

That's purely opinion.
The poly count on the players is MUCH lower in RTCW. Why don't you compare DOA3 players to RTCW's players?
The Xbox GPU is simply way more powerful than any GPU on the PC right now. Want links for it? I don't see why you'd even need one. But here one is anyway: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=3

I don't have a Geforce 2, I don't even have a post-2000 PC in my house. Still, as Wolfenstein runs perfect on a 1.2 GHz PIII with a Pro (according to www.ignpc.com, friends, and gamespot), my point still stands.

The 1.2GHz P3 itself costs more than the entire Xbox.

Actually, your three lines of assness right there are unequaled in this thread when it comes to trolling. Don't go there.

I'm being an ass because you are seriously in way too deep here. You have NO idea what you're talking about and you keep parading it around saying "XBOX SUCKS XBOX SUCKS SEE LOOK AT THIS". It's REALLY pissing me off, I can't stand people like that.

If you don't want to buy an Xbox, fine. Go away, **** off, I don't care how you want to phrase it.

I have one, and I love it. I also have a high end PC with a GeForce 3, and I love that too.

What it comes down to is each platform is better for different things. I enjoy sitting down with friends and playing NHL 2002 on the bigscreen, co-op Halo, DOA3 tourneys, etc. You can't do that on the PC.

I also enjoy games like Civ3 and RTCW. Those games play best on the PC. That's why I have both.

Xbox is undoubtedly the most powerful console out there, comparing it to the PC is useless and irrelevant. If the Xbox is so weak in comparison, why would anyone even consider getting a Gamecube or PS2, Wiglaf? Your logic is flawed, and it's frustrating to debate against.

[Wraith]

--"YOU list me another graphics card that uses the same technology."

Don't confuse innovative with weird.

--"Er...Wraith, it's WIDELY accepted that Toms is AMD biased"

Actually, it's widely accepted that he was AMD biased. It's not like his opinions have remained constant throughout all time.

--"You should know that I used to respect you in debates."

So? I don't recall ever having respecting you in debates, and if I don't respect you your opion really doesn't mean anything to me.

--"It doesn't matter if the drive is 10 gigs or not, because it's REALLY 8 gigs. The other 2 gigs do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING."

Doing absolutely nothing and not being there are different things altogether. People are reverse engineering the X-Box's file system already, sooner or later someone will have a hack that can take advantage of the extra space (or allow you to add your own drive).
You were insulting Tom for getting his numbers wrong, when in fact he had them correct. Some of the HDs are 10 Gig HDs. The X-Box just doesn't use more than 8 Gigs.

--"I'm context switching and dropping everyone's comments?!"

Context-dropping, certainly. I never said anything about you dropping comments, those kind of things happen in these long debates. What I said was twisting everyone's comments, which you really didn't need to prove quite so flamboyantly.

--"And now I can see you're just as bad as UR, making blind comments"

Blind comments? The Segate HD is a 10 Gig hd. If you take it out of the X-Box and stick it in your PC and reformat it, it'll show 10 gigs. This is a fact that you have admitted, so instead you switched to defining the size as what the X-Box can use instead of what's really there. That'd be like marking off a 40x20 partition in a 1,000 sq ft house and saying your house is only 800 sq ft.

--"Why don't you just go call me a commie too and be done with it?"

Because you've never been consitent or thoughtful enough to have an ideology. You support the Wintel party line, but unless you want me to start calling you a Bunny Man that really doesn't mean anything politically.

--"Halo doesn't use all of the Xbox's power. In fact, I've heard it only uses one of the vertex pipelines on the Xbox. Presumably because it's also coming out for the PC in a short amount of time."

If this is true, there's something interesting to consider. How many X-Box games are going to be ported to the PC? Most of them, right? Which means that if all the developers are following this logic, very few titles will actually be using the full power of the X-Box.

Wraith
Don't hate yourself in the morning - sleep till noon

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wraith
Don't confuse innovative with weird.

Wraith, again you're going out of your way to "be right".
I said it was weird, it is weird. No other video card does it, that classifies it as weird or odd (as well as innovative).

Doing absolutely nothing and not being there are different things altogether. People are reverse engineering the X-Box's file system already, sooner or later someone will have a hack that can take advantage of the extra space (or allow you to add your own drive).
You were insulting Tom for getting his numbers wrong, when in fact he had them correct. Some of the HDs are 10 Gig HDs. The X-Box just doesn't use more than 8 Gigs.

Argh. He said "The xbox has 10 gigs". I'm saying "The xbox has 8 gigs". Which is correct?
In SOME respects, he is correct. SOME drives are 10 gigs.
HOWEVER, the Xbox never reads more than 8. And the other drives are all 8 to begin with.
Who is more correct here? Me for saying the Xbox has an 8 gig hard drive (what it uses) or Tom for saying that the Xboxes have a 10 gig HD? Both are correct, one moreso than the other. Figure it out. He should have clarified it in his article.

Context-dropping, certainly. I never said anything about you dropping comments, those kind of things happen in these long debates. What I said was twisting everyone's comments, which you really didn't need to prove quite so flamboyantly.

Hey, I don't twist people's comments. I post an exact duplicate of what they say and respond to how it's interpreted. If you thought I was intentionally twisting it, you'd be wrong. You just need to perhaps make yourself more clear when expressing things you know I'll object with.

If this is true, there's something interesting to consider. How many X-Box games are going to be ported to the PC? Most of them, right? Which means that if all the developers are following this logic, very few titles will actually be using the full power of the X-Box.

You think most Xbox games will be ported to the PC?
A good number of them will be. But so are a good number of PS2 games.
And Halo started development before the Xbox even was known to exist. Future games will be designed from the start to run on Xbox and PC (if they plan to go both routes), so I'd expect them to add in the 2nd pipeline support (much like Carmack adds SMP support into Quake incase someone two processors).

[Asher]

Xbox Rings Up Big Sales for Retailers as Holiday Shopping Season Opens

REDMOND, Wash. - Nov. 21, 2001 - Cash registers are ringing in response to unprecedented demand for the much-anticipated Xbox™ video game system from Microsoft Corp. Thousands of gamers lined up at stores across the country beginning Thursday, Nov. 15, to be among the first to purchase Xbox, resulting in a near sellout in its first day at retail. Early reports also show a huge demand for games and accessories, with most customers leaving stores not only with an Xbox, but with more than three games and accessories. Top-selling games include "Halo™," "Project Gotham Racing™," "NFL™ Fever 2002" and "Oddworld: Munch’s Oddysee™" from Microsoft® Game Studios; "Madden™ NFL 2002" from Electronic Arts; and Tecmo’s "Dead or Alive 3™," an Xbox exclusive.

"The Xbox launch was the best launch I have ever been a part of, and that goes all the way back to launches like that of Nintendo Entertainment System, Super NES, 3DO and Atari," said Dan DeMatteo, president of Gamestop Inc. "It was the first time in recent memory we didn’t have to air-ship product to meet the launch date. The momentum continues even after launch. We continue to sell everything we can get."

The launch smashed many retailers’ single-day sales records. According to Peter Roithmayr, vice president of merchandising at Electronics Boutique, "It (the Xbox launch) was incredible. We had the single largest sales day in Electronics Boutique history Nov. 15. This was a record we thought would take forever to be broken. We have seen a very strong software and accessory attach beyond the first day of sales. Product continues to ship from Microsoft on a very timely basis, and consumers are obviously pleased." Microsoft’s replenishment strategy is ensuring that more than 100,000 consoles are shipped to stores every week through the holidays. Microsoft is on track to greatly exceed this number in advance of the Thanksgiving weekend, the busiest shopping time of the year. By the end of the holiday season, Microsoft will have shipped between 1 million and 1.5 million Xbox units to North America.

Toys R Us Inc. Vice President World Manager Wayne Yodzio echoed the enthusiasm of many retailers. "Launch has been excellent. We are still selling software and accessories, even after we continue to sell every console unit we get. Consumers are coming back and buying significant quantities of ’Dead or Alive 3,’ ’NFL Fever 2002’ and ’Halo.’"

Word-of-mouth recommendations and stellar reviews are driving gamers to the great games available on Xbox, including "Halo," which earned the highest accolades from Electronic Gaming Monthly, securing a rating of 10 from all reviewers.

Nineteen Xbox titles are currently available for sale, with more than 30 titles expected to be on sale by the end of the holidays, including "Amped: Freestyle Snowboarding™," "Azurik: Rise of Perathia™" and "Nightcaster™" from Microsoft Game Studios; "WWF® Raw" from THQ Inc.; and "Star Wars® Starfighter™ Special Edition" and "Star Wars® Obi-Wan™" from LucasArts Entertainment Company.

Still think it was such a horrible launch, Wiglaf?

[Asher]

And now for a review after 7 days of use of the Xbox

from ConsoleDomain.co.uk (http://www.consoledomain.co.uk/articles/1221.html)

Seriously give it some thought and temporarily toss aside those pre-conceived notions of yours.

Living with Xbox
Writer : Mike Smith


So a week on from launch, what are our feelings on Microsoft's new console? What's it like to spend seven days with Bill Gates' offspring in your front room? We've stroked it, showed it to our mates, cooed over it and even checked out if the console's controller's quick release system really works -- it does and we've not managed to pull it off the desk and on to the floor -- yet! So with our vast experience as Xbox owners in mind we've decided to lay some myths to rest and bring some to the fore in our light-hearted look at Mr Gate's new born gift to the gaming world.

1. The Xbox is not a PC!

"It's a PC in a box!" Well actually, no it doesn't appear to be at all. No crashes. No bugs. No viruses. So far, that is. About the only thing that made us feel like we were playing games on a PC was the "Quit to Xbox Dashboard" option on the main menu of Oddworld. The controller, interface and setup procedure is all pure console.

2. The controller is much bigger than it looks.

"Surely the controller is far too big?" Somewhat surprisingly, the controller is working out just fine. Though our impressions were, like most people, that it looked too large to be comfortable, it's actually very comfortable to hold for extended Halo sessions. The force feedback is especially good - it's stronger and more detailed than the PlayStation2 controller is. There are sections in Oddworld where you're controlling a crane and dropping bombs on enemies, where you can feel the full range of effect, from a light, gentle hum through to a hand-shaking rumble - fantastically detailed!

The developers of the initial batch of launch games should also be congratulated for using the force-feedback facility carefully - in most of the games, the effect is used to emphasise gameplay rather than just being thrown in for the hell of it. Halo is a particularly good example; the controller subtly supports the heavy weapons fire and explosions perfectly.

3. Xbox makes you popular.

It's true. Once word gets out that you've got your mitts on one of these bundles of gaming goodness, you'll be kept busy with visitors, both wanted and unwanted. Reminds me of the time I won the lottery.

...And everyone wants to drive the jeep in Halo.

4. All consoles should come with hard drives.

No more memory cards. Unless, that is, you want to take a save to a friend's house or something. This offsets the lack of DVD playing functionality - yes, if you want it, you need to buy a separate remote, but there's no real need to spend extra cash on a memory card. Swings and roundabouts.

It's also a lot faster than most memory cards. And it has other advantages - although Halo appears to have long loading times, in fact it's copying its levels to the hard disk. Once they're there, they can be pulled off almost instantaneously, so the mid-mission loading times are barely perceptible. The data stays there after you turn the console off, too, so you can pick up the level again later on with minimal loading.

And, finally, being able to rip your music CDs straight to the hard drive is great. No more complaining about games with ropy music; now you can choose your own. And as far as space goes, our Xbox is still reporting over 50,000 blocks free -- exactly the same as when it was new -- despite some fairly heavy duty gaming and music ripping.

5. Halo is the Best Game Ever

Well, almost. Check out our full review for our unadulterated opinion. It's far and away the best of the launch games, and one of the best FPSs to be released in years.

As it ships, it allows four Xboxes to be networked, with standard, widely available (and cheap) Ethernet components. With four players on each, this totals sixteen-player multiplayer goodness. The price tag, though, is hefty - four Xboxes, 12 extra controllers, a hub and some cables, and four HDTVs so the game is playable at quarter-screen size, totaling somewhere in the region of $10,000. Hey, it could happen! Maybe an enterprising Net cafe will take the plunge... oh go on, you know it makes sense, guys!

But there is an alternative. Some enterprising souls have figured out a way to fool two Xboxes, in different locations, into thinking they are on the same LAN. All you need is two networks, both with cable or DSL net connections, and with at least one PC on each network as well as the Xboxes. Running some software on the PCs and supplying each other's Internet addresses creates a "tunnel" through the Internet, and your Xboxes will think they are on the same local network. Voila, instant online Halo play.

It's not quite as easy as it sounds, though First, doing this will expose your network to whoever you're playing Halo against, so you'll need to trust them not to mess up your PCs. Second, this software is not easy to set up - but watch this space. One particularly community-minded gamer is working on a boot floppy, which will contain an installation of Linux together with all the software you need, on one 3.5" disk. Hopefully he'll be done soon - we'll let you know.

So our first week with our new best friend is over and we're still as in love with it as we were when we pulled it from its big green box. And there's plenty more to come by the looks of it with some of the year's most eagerly awaited games queuing up for the playing. Check out our rapidly expanding Xbox reviews section for all the latest on the console's software.

[Wraith]

--"No other video card does it, that classifies it as weird or odd"

Unusual, certainly, but weird has connotations that don't fit.

--"SOME drives are 10 gigs."

Thank you for finally admitting it.

--"I post an exact duplicate of what they say and respond to how it's interpreted."

Oh? Let's take a look at this.

Here's what I said:

Every time he realizes he's loosing an argument he starts context-dropping and twisting everyone's comments.

Here's how you replied:

I'm context switching and dropping everyone's comments?!
Christ you guys piss me off some times.
I try my best to respond to every single ****ing comment (look how many replies I've made). It is YOU that selectively chooses comments to reply to, then when I reply to them you go on a rant about how I'm context switching.

You either do not understand what context-dropping is, or you are purposely twisting my comments. Now, you may well not be aware of what you're doing, but you do mention "interpreted" above, so it seems like you are. You are certainly enough of a fanatic on these issues to edit in your head what other people have actually typed when you read it, so as to make their arguments more suitable to you.
Nowhere in my post did I mention a thing about "dropping everyone's comments" or "selectively chooses comments to reply to" or anything even remotely similar.

--"You think most Xbox games will be ported to the PC?"

Probably. It makes economic sense. The PC games market plus the console games market is much larger than the console game market alone. Any developer that already has PC game developement experience is very likely to port their games just so they can reach both markets. It's quite a bit of possible extra money, even taking the overlap into account.

Wraith
If you take a frown and turn it upside down, the person you are holding by the ankles will soon pass out.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wraith
You either do not understand what context-dropping is, or you are purposely twisting my comments. Now, you may well not be aware of what you're doing, but you do mention "interpreted" above, so it seems like you are. You are certainly enough of a fanatic on these issues to edit in your head what other people have actually typed when you read it, so as to make their arguments more suitable to you.
Nowhere in my post did I mention a thing about "dropping everyone's comments" or "selectively chooses comments to reply to" or anything even remotely similar.

Context-dropping implies I'm not providing exact quotes of people I'm responding to (dropping it out of context). That's not the case, I'm posting exact duplicates of the post in the order they were made. They're in context.

Maybe you're trying to say something else?

Probably. It makes economic sense. The PC games market plus the console games market is much larger than the console game market alone. Any developer that already has PC game developement experience is very likely to port their games just so they can reach both markets. It's quite a bit of possible extra money, even taking the overlap into account.

Yes, that's true, but you don't see all PS2/GC games being ported either. While it is true the Xbox should be easier to port, I doubt that many developers will. MS is going to (at least initially) sign lots of contracts with developers to try to get the Xbox to be "exclusive" for a game. I mean, if all the good games are available on PC, why bother getting an Xbox? MS is going to guarantee there's an abundant supply of good games only for Xbox.

And before someone goes on a rant about this is why MS shouldn't be in the console arena, you should remember that Sony isn't exactly better. Remember what they did to Bleem? Forced them out of business and strong-arming retailers.

[Wiglaf]

Blah, what the hell is this?
I have NO idea what you're trying to say. Technical development isn't going up as fast as it used to? Are you calling N64 first gen? Errr..?

Very rarely are first generation titles improved upon by leaps and bounds when the second and third generations arrive.

It's graphically mediocre because it's intended to be ported to the PC. In fact, it was originally intended for the PC/Mac. In order to take advantage of the second vertex pipeline you have to change some fundamental parts of the renderer. It's kinda like having dual processors: Having a second CPU in your box doesn't boost performance in every application. They need to be designed to support it.

I'll see if I can't dig up some more screenshots of launch titles, especially the ever gorgeous NFL Fever.

That's purely opinion.
The poly count on the players is MUCH lower in RTCW. Why don't you compare DOA3 players to RTCW's players?

RTCW isn't a game of "players", it's mainly about environments. I assumed, since both the RTCW shots and the Halo shots involved nice outdoor images, that the comparison would be as fair as possible.

The 1.2GHz P3 itself costs more than the entire Xbox.

That's not the issue, the issue is the quality of the graphics that you see, PC and Xbox. In any event, you're right, but computers generally are used for more than videogame playing purposes.

If you don't want to buy an Xbox, fine. Go away, **** off, I don't care how you want to phrase it.

Calm down, asher.

Xbox is undoubtedly the most powerful console out there, comparing it to the PC is useless and irrelevant. If the Xbox is so weak in comparison, why would anyone even consider getting a Gamecube or PS2, Wiglaf? Your logic is flawed, and it's frustrating to debate against.

It's not logic, it's fact, judging by those screenshots and the few others I'm hoping to get sooner or later. Besides, the picture quality on a high end video card is much greater than that of the average home TV.

In any event, Gamecubes and PS2s are cheaper and have different types of games (generally, so far, ones with less depth and more wide ranging appeal) than the PC market does. So, they're popular.

[November Adam]

Wiglaf, I've seen demos for the X-box version of NFL Fever, and the game LOOKED better then Madden, I'm talking graphics wise.

There was a game being played in the snow, and it looked nice. The players where even leaving marks where they walked, annd where they went down. Nice.

I can't say about game play as I've played neither, and I'm not a big sports gamer either.

I didn't understand your "see above" comment either.