Sweden: Paradise on Earth?

[Kitschum]

Originally posted by Last Conformist


Dec 29 2004. I believe the article title was "Faltering meritocracy in America".

Thanks! Found it in Jan 1 2005. I just read it but forgot the title as quickly. Very interesting, especially about the "legacies" at American unis.

The "unmeritorious" distribution of wealth in the US appears to stem from a different cause than in Sweden. While in the US, sons' income follows their fathers' more closely than in Swe (because of supposed unequal opportunities); in Swe income differences have little effect on differences in wealth (and presumably financial security and living conditions to some degree)

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Sweden is able to do well by sacrificing current and future economic growth. This can still provide a good standard of living as long as the population keeps falling but it the population starts increasing then the model will break down.

Sweden's population is still growing. We recently passed nine million.

[BeBMan]

[Alexander's Horse]

Whenever I do a WWI sim I always invade Sweden. Sweden is not a very important military target but it helps you take Leningrad and shut down the Baltic as a German lake.

Sieg Horse!

[Pekka]

Finland would have attacked Sweden from outside pressure? I don't see that scenario very realistic.. If that was a realistic option, I mean the pressure, then the only option then would have been Sweden giving up neutrality, which they might have at that point, and join forces against the pressure side.

And we exported our poor to Sweden in 70s . Better job opportunities in there in the 70s and standard of living was not comparable, so, they got a lot of drunk stabbers HOORAY!

[Alexander's Horse]

Sweden has a high suicide rate doesn't it?

[BeBMan]

Do they read your posts?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

yeah, but its not their fault. you too would want to end your life if you spent two thirds of it shoveling snow in the dark.

[Kitschum]

Originally posted by Gangerolf

But IIRC Sweden began flexing its muscles vis a vis the Germans at the very end of the war (military exercises at the border, thinly veiled threats? I forget.). I'm sure Sweden would have gotten involved somehow if the Germans in Norway decided not to surrender (something they seriously considered ).

According to this article (with map),

http://www.smb.nu/pos/97/07_per_albin3.asp

Sweden were far gone in preparing for an assault across the sea against the Germans in Sjaelland in Spring 1945, if the Germans hadn't surrendered. Apparently, an invasion force of 60 000, including 4 000 Danes, plus (for Sweden) sizeable sea and air forces, was pulled together to drive out the 28 000 Germans there. No idea how viable it was

The article also claims that a gallup poll found that the Swedish people were against intervention in Norway by 47% to 33% even "if the Germans started massacres", which seems slightly odd to me and perhaps a measure of the effectiveness with which the Swedish government's neutrality stance diffused to the public

[Pekka]

Jaakko, and how do you measure that success? We are in the very bottom with our GDP in Europe, we can't match with most countries in just about anything, except few things, which are good though, like education, the lack of corruption, etc. The competitivness is a direct result from low GDP and high education. Get skilled people who work for less. Easy. We are succesful measured in the whole spectrum of every country, but not succesful measured in western standards. At least not yet. But I think we will get there so.. but not there just yet. The recession in the late 80s and early 90s set us back very much.

And Sweden forced to attack Finland or vice versa in WWII, unlikely scenario. First of all, both sides would have known what it means. IT would have meant chewing up each other on the order of big boys. What's the point in that? No point. So the only realistic thing to do would have been to join up forces and fight the big boys. The end result would have been miserable anyway, so no reason to choose to worse option.

And yes, it would have politically been a much harder thing to join the war in 1941. Because they would have joined the side Germans were fighting also, and against allied country. That's nto giving up neutrality and joining a neighbour anymore, that's giving up something valuable and taking a huge risk, a risk where the odds are not with you anymore.


and the internet thing I don't know how much it plays, Americans realizing things. On the other hand, everyone who knows a bit about the US, it's not all you thnk it would be, on standards if living. The 'middle class' is not really that rich. Can be comparable to anyone in here. Because the middle class today means much lower than it used to. Upper middle class however and everything above, and the REAL middle class, they're doing very well comparing ot the rest of the middle classes in other countries. BUt the ones making 15 bucks an hour, thinking they have it great, well, that's how it is in here and we ***** about that a lot .

Because we think it's all Dallas and Dynasty up in there. We think everyone has at least 2 pools and 900 square meter palaces. But it's not really true. It's all the movies tha tmakes us think that way.

[Alexander's Horse]

The other good reason to invade Sweden is they are neutral which means they have no friends.

[Combat Ingrid]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The other good reason to invade Sweden is they are neutral which means they have no friends.

Don't tell that to George W

[BeBMan]

*inserts generic oil joke*

[Last Conformist]

IIRC, Sweden was training Norwegian paramilitaries in '45 that were meant to be sent over the border if the German garrison would not surrender.

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by Pekka
Jaakko, and how do you measure that success?

That wasn't my point at all, I was just trying to corner Berzerker with his claims of bad so-called socialist countries living off the so-called capitalists' hard work.

That is, to simply show that the system in nordic countries is viable.